"light" wildlife defence dilemma: Hardcast vs. controlled expansion...

[saturno_v]

For my "light" woods protection duty around my area (western WA) I use my S&W 1006.
I personally consider the full house 10mm Auto firing heavy for caliber bullets as the minimum acceptable against animals no bigger than cougars of black bears (not too big).

Now while I definitely carry hardcast against the possibility of black bears, I suspect that a controlled expansion bullet may work much better on cougars.

Same dilemma "stepping up"......I consider a 44 Magnum loaded with heavy (300+ grains) hardcast pills fired from a long barrelled revolver the minimum when brownies are a possibility but maybe a soft flat nose bullet is better against a lesser threat (black bears or, as I said before, cougars).

What is your take, your "rule of thumb" on this?? In the end you carry only one handgun in the field at any given time and you have to decide on how to load it....

Thanks

Regards

 

[outsider]

Sounds like you are not hunting, and just need a sidearm for protection? Don't overthink it. Just take anything comparable to a .357.

 

[Art Eatman]

Not many brownies in western WA. Cougars are more easily killed than black bears. Might be harder to hit, maybe, but they're not as tough as a bear.

 

[Coyote3855]

Lion and black bear in my area, not many of either. I carry a Ruger Speed Six .357 with factory hollowpoints, usually Remington Golden Sabers. Whatever you carry should be easy and fast to access. I'm more concerned about lion than bear. The bears I've encountered beat feet as soon as they're aware of me. There have, however, been cases of lion attacking joggers, hikers, mountain bikers. So you may have no warning until the cat is on your back. Saw evidence of lion on a two hour hike in a well-used public recreation area Wednesday this week.

 

[sixgunner455]

I see lion and bear sign when hiking and hunting in my area. Smallish black bears. They have killed people in the past here, too.

I carry a .357 with a 160gr hard cast, wide-flat nose at about 1150-1200 fps. What you do when you are loading up to deal with dangerous animals is carry something that will handle the biggest, toughest, most dangerous critter you are likely to find in that area. The term "loaded for bear" comes directly from this philosophy. If it'll kill the biggest critter in your area, it'll kill anything smaller, too.

Honestly, the most dangerous critters in this area are people. Lots more of them around than bears, too.

 

[RinkRat]

I have read around that you want to use at least a +200gr chunk of FNHCL traveling at least 1000fps to defend off something that wants to eat you. When I think of Controlled Expansion's I think of JHP's which will not penetrate as well as a FNHCL projectile will. FMJRN projectiles will penetrate but their RN would probably tend to deflect off bones and around skulls where FNHCL would tend to keep on its intended path. Also ... *some* are comfortable with a 10mm loaded hot while some say carry nothing less then a 44mag.

It's been hashed over and over and over many times over too ...

I took an outdoors survival class once and the instructor stood about 40 feet in front of a pickup truck with his back to the driver. He raised his left arm and dropped it signaling the driver to floor it, he turned to face the oncoming truck and drew a 10mm handgun filled with blanks for effect and he got off two rounds before the truck raced by him ... he turned to us and said "If you ever have to try to defend yourself against any charging beasts in the woods set on killing you that is about how much time you have to draw, aim, hit it , and too stop it from ripping off your face!! And as you just witnessed. That would be about 3 to 5 seconds ... and if you are lucky, you might hit it but if you do not hit its softball sized brain chances are you are not going to stop it and if you do not stop it your going to end up being deep in its digestive system!!! So class, as you are wetting yourself ... you better hope that's your luckiest of lucky days??"

Some say carry spray to try first and if that doesn't totally stop it from charging and turn/go away, it might slow it down long enough for you to get off enough well placed shots to change its mind. But if the wind conditions aren't in your favor that spray might not work and/or blow back into your face giving the beast a spicy treat!!

So to answer the OP's question do not use Controlled Expansion's for big woodland critters use FNHCL YMMV

 

[castingdonkey]

I carry a 10mm auto with 15 180gr fmj. I watched a hunting show, I believe it was eastmans and they had a momma grizzly charge. One of the hunters fired into the river in front of the bear and the muzzle blast was enough to turn her around. Otherwise I have 14 reasons left in my weapon to try to turn the situation around. I have no doubt that a charging bear is going to get a piece of me, I just hope I get my shots in first.

 

[RinkRat]

I don't know what they discharged that muzzle-blast from that flogged off that brownie that they fired at on TV or how far away she was or if she had any bare baby's < yes bare > with her but I'll bet there was also some heavy artillery leveled at the mama bruin off-camera too which if it were a big enough group it might of helped turn her around *maybe*??

Those TV crews do not travel alone, and they don't want their star performer eaten alive.

Though it might make for some good numbers during their shows rating season.

Some of the Great White Northern guides are sometimes carrying tricked-out G20's with 6" barrels, even though they say 44mags are the least they like too carry. But I kind ah like the idea of having 15+1 = 16 rounds of a heavy 10mm vs only 6 of a 44mag, though if the beast does get on you at least with a wheelie you could contact shoot it where a semi-auto's slide would probably be good for only one shot, which if you did hit it right it could save what's left of your-self.

But then it only takes one well placed shot to hopefully slow it down long enough to get that well needed fatal hit or two before it's time to shoot yourself and just get it over with, once your head, is down its throat.

But if you follow the advice I got from someone once all you really need to do is not go into bear areas alone ... so all you'll need is a little 22 caliber something. When said big beast starts its aggregation towards you just shoot said companion in the leg so you can run off fast then them ... problem solved ... just make sure they are not a very good friend though

 

[waffentomas]

Last year while hunting in 32A in Idaho, I came face to face with an adolescent blonde grizzly. He was gorgeous, with a nice big hump!! Standing on his hinds about 30 feet up hill from me he looked like he was 15 feet tall and 2000 lbs. Truth is he was probably about 450 lbs. He sniffed the air (me), seemed uninterested, and dropped to all four and lumbered away. He totally had the drop on me - if he came...one, probably hip fired, shot from the rifle is it. Bears aren't really very good coming downhill, they aren't built for it, but I doubt, at that range, it would have mattered.

Nothing that big around here in Western WA. I carry a Glock 20 with a 6" barrel. In Idaho, I carry alternating 200gr DT lead, and hand loaded 200gr Black Talons. They both go about the same velocity and hit the same place out to 50 yards or so. I can never decide which is better for a grizzly (neither is really any good) and so load both. In WA I literally carry my every day carry ammo in the woods, which is a 200gr Nosler JHP. Blackies and cats aren't really tough to put down (though blackies can moan LOUDLY when wounded) so about any 10mm load is fine. I wouldn't be big on a 135gr load though; 165gr or heavier is better.