Lighter .357 mag load

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nyrifleman

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Trying to tap into the collective wisdom of THR...

I know a lot of people use .38+P in their 357s because of better controllability/less muzzle flash in an SD situation. I want those things too, but I also want more OOMPH than .38+P can provide (I believe the "FBI load" only has a ME of ~300 ft-lbs?) I'm looking for something more in the class of 9mm+P -- around 450 ft-lbs of ME. Typical .357 loads are even more potent with around 700 ft-lbs muzzle energy.

Does anybody know of companies that load lighter .357 loads?
 
When I researched the same question recently, the consensus seemed to be that the Golden Saber 125 grn and the Speer Gold Dot 135 grn short barrel offered the lowest factory loaded velocity (along with the 357 black blazer target ammo).
 
I know a lot of people use .38+P in their 357s because of better controllability/less muzzle flash in an SD situation. I want those things too, but I also want more OOMPH than .38+P can provide

Sounds like somebody should consider taking up reloading.;)

Don
 
and the Speer Gold Dot 135 grn short barrel
That's a good one if you don't reload, assuming you can find some. All the power many .357 shooters want anyway.
 
i find the winchester PDX .357 is actually loaded quite light (110 gr), and is very manageable, even shooting single handed......

the recoil is akin to a .38 +p, and out of my 2.5" sp101, there is almost no noticeable muzzle flash.
 
Are you looking for reload data or a factory ammo recommendation?

Sorry... I'm looking for a factory ammo recommendation. I'm not set up for reloading (maybe someday).

I looked at the Speer Gold Dot Short Barrel, and it's actually basically a .38+P load in a .357 case. Less powerful than what I'm looking for.

Then, I came across this:
http://www.ballistics101.com/357_magnum.php
http://www.ballistics101.com/38_special.php

Never seen this site before, but darn, it looks useful. If that data is to be believed, either the super-hot .38+P's by Buffalo Bore, or the light .357s by Corbon will serve my purpose.
 
i find the winchester PDX .357 is actually loaded quite light (110 gr), and is very manageable, even shooting single handed......

the recoil is akin to a .38 +p, and out of my 2.5" sp101, there is almost no noticeable muzzle flash.

That sounds interesting too. I've always liked the idea of light, fast bullets.
 
i think corbon make a cowboy load in the range you are looking for. look on midwayusa web site i know its there.
 
Well, my wife is very recoil sensitive. She carries a 649. I have a 340PD, and that singular weapon makes me just as sensitive. So we ran a bunch of factory stuff through them, and the 340PD really highlights recoil making it very useful for this.

158gr. Gold Dots were the worst. Worse than holding a Black Cat firecracker and lighting it (done that as a kid, those Chinese firecrakers had fuses that burned at the speed of light).

140gr. Corbon was pretty stiff too.

125gr. Federal Hydrashok +P were lighter than any of the magnums.

But 125gr. Hornady CD's were somewhere in the middle. Compared to my handloads I brought along to compare, all 125gr. plated bullets on top of N340, the Hornady's were stiffer than the light specials, the max specials, and the light magnums, but lighter than the other factory loads I tested.


I also chrono'd these loads. The mid strength specials clock 614fps, max special loads clock 718 fps. Those were book min and max loads. Min .357 loads clock around 850 I GUESS --I obviously didn't get any data for those or the Corbons (bad weather). The 158GD's, those move along at 851fps, and the Hornady's move along at 1075fps.

So if you want 9mm+P performance in a snub revolver size, get a 9mm in that size. Snubs have a lot of recoil and little performance. When using a snub, forget about the info on those boxes, it doesn't mean anything. You are much better off finding a round that you can handle well. Numerically, magnum loads have very similar performance from a snub regardless of bullet weight.

However, I've read about problems with CD ammo. I haven't had any problems, but other that have report really bad stuff, all kinds of stuff, but most of the complaints were old. I've read the same about Winchester Ranger ammo, but all the stuff I have seems fine. Just inspect each round before you load it, and fire a few boxes of the same lot to make sure it works right. That's my advice.

Also, the lighter bullets will give you closer numbers to 9mm+P. They also have less felt recoil up to a point, more snappy. The heavier bullets, those feel like a hammer hitting your hand, less snappy and more of a shove. With a 340PD anyway. With her 649, all the loads above were fine for me, even the 158GD, which is what I would prefer in a snub.

Now for the kicker. The 158gr. GD has basically the same momentum as the 125gr. CD, but the 125gr. has slightly more kinetic energy. So numerically, the CD wins AND has much less felt recoil. Worth giving a try in your own tests, because that is really what you need to do. Just use us to get ideas on which ones to test, but do your own tests.
 
The Remington Golden Saber 125gr in .357 mag is loaded to a medium velocity of 1,220 fps 333 ft lbs of energy from a 4" barrel according to Remington for pretty much what you are asking for. The GS ammo is generally available both in store and on line.
 
Bullet design over velocity. Federal Premium Personal Defense Ammunition 38 Special +P 129 Grain Hydra-Shok Jacketed Hollow Point. Muzzle Velocity: 950 fps
Muzzle Energy: 258 ft. lbs. http://www.midwayusa.com/product/524684/federal-premium-personal-defense-ammunition-38-special-p-129-grain-hydra-shok-jacketed-hollow-point-box-of-20
I tested those, I have those, in the above post I meant 129gr. I guarantee you that you won't get 950fps from a snub. I didn't get any numbers, my chrono doesn't work in WA in the spring, fall or winter (!) but I do know it isn't anywhere close to 950.

My 125gr. MAX load specials, which basically are +P's, only got 718fps! If the Federal gets 800 I'd be surprised.

Box numbers don't mean anything. The numbers you get with a chrono, those mean something. And you will NEVER get a special that will outperform a magnum when the two are loaded with the same bullet and same or similar powder and to max specifications. Just ain't happening.

I know what the OP means by getting mag power from a snub while desiring special recoil. There is a "happy medium" but the only one that I've found from the factory has been that CD, but I haven't by a longshot tried them all. I do know you'll have better luck with lighter bullets though.
 
What barrel length are we talking? In a 2", 700 FPE is going to be tough to find in .357. In a 4", no sweat.

BUT! check out buffalo bore's offerings in .38 special +P. There are loads that net 319, 377, and 339 FPE, respectively, in a 2" barrel. The outdoorsman rounds are pushing 600 FPE out of a 6" barrel. Sounds like their ammo would suit your needs perfectly.
 
^^^^That was my first question. In a 4-incher, I'd look at:
Buffalo Bore 158 gr LSWCHP+P .38spec
Buffalo Bore tactical light .357
Remington Golden Sabre 125 gr .357
110 gr .357s from the big makers (ie: Winchester white box)

you can get similar ballistics to the 110 gr .357 (actually a mid range load once issued to the US border patrol) with the 110 +P+ .38 load, such as the Ranger commonly available at online places (google 110 +p+ ranger $)

All of those should break 450fpe out of a 4" tube-except maybe the 110s, and they're listed at 410.. The 110's will be loud, but pussy cats otherwise, even with stock grips, let alone a good hogue on that sp101.

JMO.
 
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I would suggest for practice the CCI Blazer 158gr hollow point. Velocity is going to come in at 1150 to 1200 fps. This round is accurate out of a 4 inch 357 magnum. I use it in all my S&W K frame 357 magnums. A box will run about $20. This is almost as cheap as 38 special.
Good luck,
Howard
 
Can`t help ya ,stopped shooting store bought stuff in `84, stopped lookin at prices in`05

Load what I want , how I want , whenever I want !!!

Agreed ,it`s time to get a press !!

If ya do ya home work & take ya time you can pick up very reasonable tools in the classifieds on forums.

I have to hold back , I have triples & more of some tools !!!

We`ll talk of casting after the reloading settles in good !!!

These open nicely at 1000 fps :

102_0588.jpg

102_0371.jpg
 
Sorry fellers & Thanks for letting an ole man ramble a bit :eek:

Some of todays SD/HD ammo is state of the art in bullet designs & purposes !!

I`m sure theres alot of 357 revolvers loaded with 38+p Hydroshocks or Golden Sabre , Hornady even has special Zombie ammo now !!!!
 
Sorry fellers & Thanks for letting an ole man ramble a bit :eek:

Some of todays SD/HD ammo is state of the art in bullet designs & purposes !!

I`m sure theres alot of 357 revolvers loaded with 38+p Hydroshocks or Golden Sabre , Hornady even has special Zombie ammo now !!!!
No problemo! I like your cast boolits, there, ole buddy!

Also, +1 on the comments about looking into reloading. Half my collection was financed by the ammunition savings accrued thru reloading (and, also casting and sizine my own boolits....made from wheel-weights when I could get hundreds of pounds of them free from gas stations.......and I did!!)
 
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