lightning link question

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cdp ii

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A friend of mine, (Vietnam Veteran), who hates using computer has requested I ask this.

back in the 70s he bought one of those "drop in m16 conversion kits" which I'm assuming the proper term is lightning link, mail order from a magazine. Is it legal to install this into his Colt SP-1? He says they were available for sale in abundance back then. Do they have to be registered with the ATF now or are they ok as purchased back then???

secondly, if it needs to be registered (which he says he would happily do if needed) are there major modifications needed to be done for this "drop in" kit??

He and I would greatly appreciate any help we can get on this subject matter.

Thanks in advance,
Ike
 
It would need to be registered to be used, legally. The ability to do that ended in 1986.
 
Devices that make a firearm function as a full-auto (such as the Drop In Auto Sears / Lightning Links) are, themselves, considered to be Machine Guns by the BATFE. To be legal, they had to be registered by the manufacturer upon being made. Up until 1986 they could be made for sale to regular joes (non-dealers) but the sale had to take place through an SOT 3 dealer, not via mail-order. (As of May 1986, it became illegal to make new machine guns or DIAS/LL for sale to folks other than machine gun dealers or government agencies.)

If it was not registered upon making, it cannot be registered. If he does not have the Form 4 paperwork and canceled tax stamp from having it legally transferred to him, he cannot be in lawful possession of that object. Possession of an unregistered NFA Title II item like that is a federal felony that carries a penalty of 10 years jail time and a $250,000 fine.

If it is a complete, correct, DIAS/LL, then it would pop right in and make the gun run full-auto. This would be exceptionally unwise.

If it is not quite complete and functional, it may have been sold as some kind of "for informational purposes only" novelty that the buyer should never (wink-wink, nudge-nudge) finish and install.

At any rate, at best it is very, very illegal. At worst it also could cause the gun to malfunction, fire out-of-battery, and hurt or kill your friend.
 
They were still advertising them in every issue of Shotgun News the last time I paid attention.

I always considered the add to be akin to the ATF trolling for dummies!

I wouldn't send them the money for one if my Wife told me too! :what:

rc
 
Thanks y'all,
I just let him know the bad news. He's bummed that it can't be used or registered now but grateful to know that it's best to just toss it out and count it as a loss. He said he wished he would've known back then so he could've gotten things done the right way.

I just want to thank y'all immensely for informing us on this issue and keeping him out of any trouble or problems with the info given here.

-Ike
 
They won't fit or work in an SP-1 anyway.
Colt made sure of that.

rc
 
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Save yourself the trouble and just get rid of it where no one is going to find it.

If it isn't already registered, it is never gonna be legal, now or in the future.

rc
 
Zane said:
It would need to be registered to be used, legally. The ability to do that ended in 1986.
Click to expand...
I'm pretty sure it doesn't need to be registered to be used, legally. It needs to be registered to be *POSSESSED* legally.

He should sell it in the local classifieds. I'd list it as "all expenses paid trip to club fed."

Joking aside, it's a legal hot potato. I wouldn't want to be the one holding it, and I would seek out the best way to get rid of it. A wise man would probably get a lawyer for this. Surrendering it puts one on the radar. He's had it this long, it's not like there's a hot paper trail that might lead to it, so maybe just destroying it is the legally safe thing to do?

I would not want to be in possession of it, although I'll be honest, if I was in that position, I'd be tempted to bury it far enough away no one would ever find it, but close enough you can go dig it up in case the proverbial S ever HTF.
Temptation is best resisted. It's the smart thing to do.
 
If I remember correctly, a Drop In Auto Sear manufactured prior to November 1981, by itself, is legal to possess. This is the DIAS being advertised in the Shotgun News. A DIAS of later manufacture, by itself, is considered a machine gun. I believe possession of a pre November 1981 DIAS, even if not installed, and an AR15 with the correct M16 parts for the DIAS to function would constitute possession of a machine gun. I believe the Lightning link, which is entirely different in operation from the DIAS, and requiring no M16 parts to function, was always considered a machine gun, by itself, and sold accordingly.
 
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kimbershot - I'll have to check that website out at home as it's blocked for me here at work (flagged as a weapons website, thankfully this forum isn't flagged)

Talked to him again, he says it's a full kit (fire control group???), trigger, hammer, selector switch, and auto sear.

Either way, he's not gonna install it or anything. As he said, he's too old and too poor to afford legal assistance in even attempting to pursue whether or not it is legal in any form.

Sorry for the late reply on this all, y'all been very helpful. I'll checkout that link when Im off.
 
Sounds like a full-up fire control group for a M-16A1. It isn't "drop in" unless the receiver has already been milled and drilled for the sear/sear pin. Having the parts is frowned upon by the ATF, but short of being charged with "constructive possession" there really isn't any issue. The rest of the parts will interchange with SA parts and don't really create an illegal firearm.
 
Oh, that's a little different. Semi receivers are very different from full auto receivers. They are designed not to take a complete full auto fire control group. The auto sear requires another pin hole, a lower shelf and significant milling to the rear of the receiver. He can legally keep all of the parts except for the auto sear.
 
auto sear 1986 deadline

http://www.ammoland.com/2013/07/atf-confiscating-drop-in-auto-sears/#axzz2qcXnTdpg

Above is a link to a video on the registered auto sear.
The guy did a good job.

Ronald Regan did us no favor in sliding this one through.
A lot of revenue was lost from potential registrations here.

Bottom line I could not afford it in the 80s and now with ammunition at the prices they are. I have no regrets.
I may look for a Ruger #1 and really slow the consumption down.
Not really. I will stick to my 99 Savage in .300 since it works for me.
I hope this information is useful and informative to someone out there.
 
At one time, both the DIAS and the LL were perfectly legal to own, but they could be installed only after the gun was registered on a Form 1 prior to installation (which constituted manufacturing a machinegun).

At some point, BATF decided that those items were, in and by themselves, machineguns, and many were made, registered and sold on a Form 4; those have serial numbers. Ones already in existence were grandfathered, but after 1986 could not be installed since no new machineguns could be made for civilian sale. So the only ones legally in use today are those which were made and installed before 1986.

One problem can trip up the owners of DIAS's. Just before they were declared a firearm, makers ran off thousands, and those are the ones on the market today. The trouble is that several companies made them out of very cheap material, even cast zinc. They are legal to own (though illegal to install) but if the owner decides to install one anyhow, he might find that they won't last for more than a few shots. Even buying a registered one and legally installing it could have the same result. (And note that if you buy a registered DIAS and pay the $200 tax, and it dissolves in a half dozen shots, there is no refund on the tax; you will have to find and pay another $200 tax on a new one, which might be no better.)

Jim
 
IBEWBULL said:
Ronald Regan did us no favor in sliding this one through.
Click to expand...
Just to make the record clear:

NRA1.jpg


Mike
 
rcmodel said:
They won't fit or work in an SP-1 anyway.
Colt made sure of that.
Click to expand...

You probably don't mean SP-1:s of 70's and 80's, do you? In my experience LL:s work great in them, often much better than in A2:s. I can't remember when Colt changed the lower so that DIAS and LL can't be installed anymore, it could've been around the time when A2's designation was changed to Colt Sporter, dropping AR-15 from the name altogether.
 
If you ever checked out how much MISSING is done with these things, at very close range, you'd wonder why anybody bothers to own any F/A except a belt fed.Even then, if it's not on a tripod and you don't have a truckload of ammo, it doesn't amount to a whole lot in a fight.
 
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