Likelihood of Lead bullets being banned?

[ssyoumans]

I know there has been a long thread discussing the closure of the last raw lead smelter in the US, but this article brings up another point.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/12/1...-regulations-bans-force-switch-to-green-ammo/

Will the EPA ban lead from ammo in the near future and what will that mean to my existing ammo and components? What would it mean if the EPA said no more lead bullets after 201X? Including using existing inventories? Could it happen? I was surprised that 24 states had already banned lead bullets, I always thought of that as simply a California problem. Wonder which states and if they have a phased in approach?

This has me concerned since I shoot a few thousand handgun bullets a year, not counting 22LR.

 

[mokin]

Short answer is probably pretty high, eventually.

Long answer is a little more complicated. Firstly, I doubt such a ban would come from the EPA. More likely as a rider on some other bill (not related to shooting or even the environment, I would guess food safety) where it would go unnoticed until after the fact. As far as the "two dozen" states that already ban lead bullets what is probably meant is "for hunting." Plinkers are still allowed to blast away with lead all they want as long as the range where they shoot does not become considered a storage area for lead by the EPA. Then the range becomes a toxic waste site and is ordered to implement a clean-up program and/or face closure. Or the BLM/Forest Service will post signs closing the area to shooting. But I digress.

Secondly, the story was on FOX news. I'd look a lot further into the issue before I got my knickers in a twist over something I heard on FOX.

 

[ssyoumans]

Agree with you that fox's over dramatizing topics. Also think you're right about "hunting" bullets only at this time (except Cali), but I tend to believe the way things are headed, a full lead ammo ban is coming for all bullets. Maybe some advancements will happen as the military makes its conversion by 2018.

Perhaps I need another layer of tin foil for my hat, or I should stop reading Fox News.

 

[Schwing]

I don't see it happening any time soon.

 

[mdauben]

I know there has been a long thread discussing the closure of the last raw lead smelter in the US

Its been pretty well established that this recent closure will have little to no impact on lead supplies for bullets. Most lead used in the US (including all lead used in ammo) is already smelted outside the country due to our environmental laws.

Will the EPA ban lead from ammo in the near future

Environmental and anti-hunting groups have been pressuring EPA to ban lead ammo for years. They have repeatedly said they don't have the authority to do so. Not saying a lead ammo ban could not be passed in congress, of course.

 

[JFtheGR8]

Stay vigilant. It's a workaround ban on guns. By making ammo unobtainable (or very expensive) many will cease to be gun owners and even fewer people will take it up. Don't think that the anti's won't use any angle that they possibly can. I believe someone on the liberal side had even suggested the strategy. I'll have to look it up to reference it later on unless someone else knows the source.


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[itsa pain]

The military will go to lead free bullets by 2018 and I read that without an aluminum foil on my head. Civilians will be next I say

 

[buck460XVR]

If lead bullets are banned(already are in Korneyforney) it will be for the same reason lead was banned in gasoline and shot used for waterfowl. Same reason fishing sinkers are now being made outta something else and lead based paint is no more. If liberals want to make ammo too expensive for the average shooter, they'll just raise the taxes on it like they did cigarettes.

 

[danez71]

Agree with you that fox's over dramatizing topics. Also think you're right about "hunting" bullets only at this time (except Cali), but I tend to believe the way things are headed, a full lead ammo ban is coming for all bullets. Maybe some advancements will happen as the military makes its conversion by 2018.

Perhaps I need another layer of tin foil for my hat, or I should stop reading Fox News.

If lead bullets are banned(already are in Korneyforney) it will be for the same reason lead was banned in gasoline and shot used for waterfowl. Same reason fishing sinkers are now being made outta something else and lead based paint is no more. If liberals want to make ammo too expensive for the average shooter, they'll just raise the taxes on it like they did cigarettes.

CA has not banned all lead bullets. Only for hunting and in certain protected areas. Just like 2 dozen other states mentioned in the article.


Where does this mis-information come from?

 

[CWL]

Some people never bother learning the real issues. They'd rather go off on a tangent attacking California when the real issue is that there will be no-more lead available for bullets by the end of this year because of EPA efforts. When the last lead smelter closes-down in MO on December 31, that's it for everyone.

Already banned in CA? Really? The lead ban in ammo kicks-on, July 2019, but lead will already have been unavailable for 5 1/2 years. This law doesn't mean anything when the problem is at the national level.

 

[plmitch]

Oh no...Is the sky falling again?

 

[barnbwt]

Already banned in CA? Really? The lead ban in ammo kicks-on, July 2019, but lead will already have been unavailable for 5 1/2 years.

Come again? We're running out of lead next year? We should be able to scoop up enough waste lead to replenish our stocks from the allegedly polluted Californian ecosystem left by all those hunters

1)We'll still have plenty of lead for the foreseeable future, which will gradually get more expensive like every other important resource out there
2)We still have many lead recycling/processing/smelting facilities in the US (just not the subset that run raw ore to metal)
3)There is no current mechanism by which the EPA is allowed by law to restrict lead in bullets (I forget if it's just lead or any compound)
4)There is unlikely to be mechanism for the EPA to ban lead in bullets added given the current political landscape in the nation
5)Local zoning laws threatening your favorite shootin' hole or gun range are far, far greater threats to your ability to enjoy this hobby*.

Oh no...Is the sky falling again?

Right? Thankfully my tinfoil is freezer-grade thickness --I should be just fine

*Many encroached-upon ranges in the DFW area have restrictions on FMJ imposed upon them by insurance companies. I understand the ability of FMJ to more easily bounce off the tops of berms is dubious at best, so this restriction primarily serves to make shooting more expensive, while doing little if anything to reduce risk to the range or increase the safety of those beyond the berms. Rules like this are a more likely and just as serious threat to the shooting sports as laws requiring Bizmuth bullets or frangibles.

TCB

 

[hso]

What would it mean if the EPA said no more lead bullets after 201X? Including using existing inventories? Could it happen?

We've pointed out that lead ammunition is specifically exempt from RCRA/TSCA rules so anything that is done has to be done on the state level or to change the RCRA/TSCA laws (not happening).

If those rules were changed they would only affect manufacture and sale, not current inventory or stocks and certainly not personal supplies.

 

[danez71]

Oh no...Is the sky falling again?

Yes! But mostly CA's sky.

Didn't you hear that they have enacted a new law and will arrest anyone with lead weights on their car tires?

They will charge you with constructive possession of a ecological destruction device and they've set up check points at all of the 3-way intersections as to not overload the jail system too quickly.

Those crazy Californian's

 

[jmr40]

I don't expect anything anytime soon, but who knows what the future holds. If lead bullets were to become banned another cost effective alternative would be found. Gasoline is 10X more expensive than it was when I was a kid, it hasn't stopped people from driving, cars get 3-4X better fuel economy today too. Factor in higher wages and people spend less on gas than when it was 35 cents/gal. If people want to shoot they will find an alternative. It may be a bit more expensive, but the sky is not falling.

More expensive ammo could have a positive effect. People may just decide that firing fewer, more accurate shots is more important than just spraying lead downrange.

 

[Yarddog]

If those rules were changed they would only affect manufacture and sale, certainly not personal supplies.

That's nice to hear Got pleanty ; )
Y/D

 

[JFtheGR8]

Oh no...Is the sky falling again?

Certainly not but the boundaries are being probed. Gotta watch your six.


Posted from Thehighroad.org App for Android

 

[Greybeard]

Quote: " I understand the ability of FMJ to more easily bounce off the tops of berms is dubious at best, "

Methinks you "understand" inappropriately at best. The problem with rifle FMJ is not bouncing off the tops of berms, but with hits well short of the targets skipping OVER the berms - and still having enough velocity to go a loooong way.

 

[AethelstanAegen]

They'd rather go off on a tangent attacking California when the real issue is that there will be no-more lead available for bullets by the end of this year because of EPA efforts. When the last lead smelter closes-down in MO on December 31, that's it for everyone.

You should probably read the full thread first next time:

Its been pretty well established that this recent closure will have little to no impact on lead supplies for bullets. Most lead used in the US (including all lead used in ammo) is already smelted outside the country due to our environmental laws.

The lead smelter closing down will have no effect on lead supply for us here since it's all coming from out of the country anyways (which is why they're closing the smelter down, as they can't be competitive with cheaper foreign lead). So I'm not sure where you were going with all that but we are not going to be out of lead next year.

 

[herrwalther]

I am not usually one to fall into the fear mongering in mainstream news but now I can just use this as another excuse to start casting my own.

 

[alsaqr]

I was surprised that 24 states had already banned lead bullets,

i would be surprised too, if it were true; which it is not. CA is the first state to ban lead bullets. So far as i can determine, no other state has banned lead bullets.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ia-bans-lead-from-hunting-ammunition/2969497/

Fox News is playing fast and loose with the truth.

 

[csmallo]

Actually, most lead used in the US isn't coming in from out of the country. Most lead used in the US comes from recycled lead, usually old car batteries.

Reported lead usage in the US for 2012 was roughly 1.4 million tons. We imported 300 thousand tons and recycled 1.1 million tons. The raw lead produced at Doe Run was about 110 thousand tons, with 60 thousand tons being exported.

http://minerals.usgs.gov/minerals/pubs/commodity/lead/mcs-2013-lead.pdf

 

[ugaarguy]

Some people never bother learning the real issues. They'd rather go off on a tangent attacking California when the real issue is that there will be no-more lead available for bullets by the end of this year because of EPA efforts. When the last lead smelter closes-down in MO on December 31, that's it for everyone.

No, no, and NO! The last primary lead smelter in the US closing is not the last lead smelter in the US. The lead used in bullets (over 95% of it) comes from secondary smelting, and none of the secondary smelters in the US are closing. Stop with the fear mongering when you don't even know the facts.

 

[danez71]

i would be surprised too, if it were true; which it is not. CA is the first state to ban lead bullets. So far as i can determine, no other state has banned lead bullets.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ia-bans-lead-from-hunting-ammunition/2969497/

Fox News is playing fast and loose with the truth.

But in this link they say this:

Other states have enacted partial lead ammunition bans in the past, and the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service banned lead shot nationwide for hunting waterfowl in 1991.

http://www.kcet.org/news/redefine/r...nia-enacts-first-statewide-lead-ammo-ban.html



And Field and Stream says

In fact, at least thirty other states regulate lead ammunition in some manner."

http://www.fieldandstream.com/blogs/field-notes/2013/10/california-bans-lead-ammunition




I think the difference is that CA was the 1st to ban lead for hunting statewide.

Other states have partial bans in certain sensitive areas or other criteria; not statewide.

 

[itsa pain]

So if all the powder, brass and copper suppliers close down do you think it would affect availability of ammo? Isnt it amazing where the govt can monitor emails phone calls cell phones etc all over the world build a small city for NSA to house it all with 4 million gallons of water to cool the spying machines using fear mongering to tell us it is legal that is not paranoia. But God forbid if a guy puts 2+2 together he is a lunatic