Lil gun

[WrongHanded]

It's my very first taste of this bullet and this powder so I'll be easing into her gently. I don't always practice what we preach but in a double variable I'm a lot more cautious. I looked up Hornadays oal out of their manual and they say 1.590 which would be good, except there cannalure isn't there. I went 1.585 but I could/should go deaper.

I'd seat the bullet where you want it to be seated going forward. If you want it deeper (I would) I'd work it up like that.

 

[Bfh_auto]

It's my very first taste of this bullet and this powder so I'll be easing into her gently. I don't always practice what we preach but in a double variable I'm a lot more cautious. I looked up Hornadays oal out of their manual and they say 1.590 which would be good, except there cannalure isn't there. I went 1.585 but I could/should go deaper.View attachment 1131040

Good call. If you decide is not to your liking in 357. It makes a great powder for the 30/32 caliber pistols.
It's a great excuse

 

[westernrover]

I'm very curious now if lil gun is a double pressure peak powder. There are a lot of cool things they are doing with deterants and the double peak is a feature of the modern doublebase powder. One does not need a higher peak to get more velocity if one can grow the total length of the pressure event while the projectile is being pushed. It also would explain why the change in powder charge did not increase velocity in a meaningful way in the 10" test barrel. Meaning that barrel length is more of a limiting factor for speed than charge weight.

You have the right idea. In my experience with Lil'Gun, non-magnum primers give high SD and ES -- evidence of poor ignition.
I also believe Lil'Gun is too bulky for 357 Magnum. I just can't get enough of it into the case to develop the pressures I want for good combustion and high velocities. I compress the loads and I think that makes them even harder to ignite with a standard primer.

I believe it has great potential, but I haven't been able to figure it out for 357 Magnum -- as such, I have better results with H110 and VV N-110 and N-105. I wouldn't write Lil'Gun off. I just don't know how to unlock it.

 

[FROGO207]

With what bullet? I have a Hornet, some lilgun and some rem 6-1/2's....

Most any 40 to 50 grain flat based .224 bullet has worked well for me with a case full, mouth carded off, and bullet inserted compressing the load.

 

[AJC1]

Good call. If you decide is not to your liking in 357. It makes a great powder for the 30/32 caliber pistols.
It's a great excuse

I'm more keen on the idea of a hornet over a 32. I've been secretly looking at rifles. The lack of cases is problematic

 

[Bfh_auto]

You have the right idea. In my experience with Lil'Gun, non-magnum primers give high SD and ES -- evidence of poor ignition.
I also believe Lil'Gun is too bulky for 357 Magnum. I just can't get enough of it into the case to develop the pressures I want for good combustion and high velocities. I compress the loads and I think that makes them even harder to ignite with a standard primer.

I believe it has great potential, but I haven't been able to figure it out for 357 Magnum -- as such, I have better results with H110 and VV N-110 and N-105. I wouldn't write Lil'Gun off. I just don't know how to unlock it.

The key is heavy bullets and longer barrels.
Like I posted earlier though. I still went back to h110.
I only used mag primers. So I don't know about the sd issue.

 

[Palladan44]

The key is heavy bullets and longer barrels.
Like I posted earlier though. I still went back to h110.
I only used mag primers. So I don't know about the sd issue.

It sounds to me that Alliant's Power Pro 300-MP is an even better solution than Lil'-Gun...... when using say 180gr bullets from say a 20" barrel. It has even more of what you're looking for with even more fine of grains to get almost 10% more dense of a charge by weight, as well as having an even slower burning characteristic.
I have some of this powder and have tried it.....however I'm only a revolver guy....and this stuff is even more noisy and sharper recoiling than WW-296.....with no performance advantage over 296 up until the 8- 3/8" to 9" barrels where it might give 50-75 fps. more than 296. It's a novelty powder in my mind, with only a very limited usage......but it does that job very well.

 

[AJC1]

It sounds to me that Alliant's Power Pro 300-MP is an even better solution than Lil'-Gun...... when using say 180gr bullets from say a 20" barrel. It has even more of what you're looking for with even more fine of grains to get almost 10% more dense of a charge by weight, as well as having an even slower burning characteristic.
I have some of this powder and have tried it.....however I'm only a revolver guy....and this stuff is even more noisy and sharper recoiling than WW-296.....with no performance advantage over 296 up until the 8- 3/8" to 9" barrels where it might give 50-75 fps. more than 296. It's a novelty powder in my mind, with only a very limited usage......but it does that job very well.

They published some crazy numbers for 300mp when it came out. Almost every personal account I've found says it's a red herring. I'm open minded enough to test anything, but I haven't seen it available. Longshot, n110 and enforcer are all much more available.

 

[AJC1]

So the only book data that I can find with lil gun in a carbine that is remotely close is the Speer load withba 170 in an 18" barrel claiming 1687fps. Expecting about 1550 or so with a max load of 15 grains in a 16" if I get more that will be great but I'm not chasing it.

 

[Charlie98]

I also believe Lil'Gun is too bulky for 357 Magnum. I just can't get enough of it into the case to develop the pressures I want for good combustion and high velocities.

Based on my dally with LilGun in QuickLoad, I'd say you are right on target. When it starts to burn more efficiently... it was at 100%+ case capacity.... and boy howdy! that pressure ramped up quick!

The key is heavy bullets and longer barrels.

That's my favorite loading equation! I love the .41, for example, but I love the .41 in a rifle even more!

It sounds to me that Alliant's Power Pro 300-MP is an even better solution than Lil'-Gun......

....and this stuff is even more noisy and sharper recoiling than WW-296

Someone on here was fooling with MP300... I forget who. The one thing I remember them saying was, it certainly lets you know you pulled the trigger. I was tempted to try it in both the .41 and .45 Colt carbine/rifle, but I don't really see a net gain over IMR4227, 2400, or even W296 if it gets down to that, when all I'm doing is launching lead against steel.

 

[Palladan44]

Someone on here was fooling with MP300... I forget who....

........Me.....?

 

[Charlie98]

........Me.....?

Possibly. I only have one functioning brane cell left, so I don't remember a lot of 'who did what' on the forums.

 

[Palladan44]

They published some crazy numbers for 300mp when it came out. Almost every personal account I've found says it's a red herring. I'm open minded enough to test anything, but I haven't seen it available. Longshot, n110 and enforcer are all much more available.

I found a pound of it last year, and have loaded almost 1/4 lb of it in test loads.
And loaded a batch of about 40 rounds of It using MBC's 300gr "Hammer" 44 cal. with an entire case load of 300 MP. They are so hard to shoot, let me tell you..... I can't even tolerate 6 at a time..... I don't even know why I did it. The ammunition looks cool.... And kicks like a 3" 12ga magnum slug fired from a 4" Ruger Redhawk..... Not fun to shoot. Punishing actually.

 

[AJC1]

I found a pound of it last year, and have loaded almost 1/4 lb of it in test loads.
And loaded a batch of about 40 rounds of It using MBC's 300gr "Hammer" 44 cal. with an entire case load of 300 MP. They are so hard to shoot, let me tell you..... I can't even tolerate 6 at a time..... I don't even know why I did it. The ammunition looks cool.... And kicks like a 3" 12ga magnum slug fired from a 4" Ruger Redhawk..... Not fun to shoot. Punishing actually.

I'm caught between a fast 158 jsp or a 170/180 as the best "ethical" hunting option. Besides what other excuse do I have for this line of testing...

 

[Charlie98]

a 170/180 as the best "ethical" hunting option.

+1

 

[AJC1]

+1

It's like the 150 vs 170 30-30 option. I'm settled on the 170s. Seems like the 180 is the same reasoning with giving velocity for better sectional density.

 

[Bfh_auto]

I'm caught between a fast 158 jsp or a 170/180 as the best "ethical" hunting option. Besides what other excuse do I have for this line of testing...

I'm with you. I haven't noticed a difference.
I'm definitely out on the light fast ones though. Unless I could find bulk 110 grain Winchester hollow points again. They held together nicely when I used them for butchering dairy cows.

 

[AJC1]

I'm with you. I haven't noticed a difference.
I'm definitely out on the light fast ones though. Unless I could find bulk 110 grain Winchester hollow points again. They held together nicely when I used them for butchering dairy cows.

There are a few bonded options around, the gold dot and remmington now has one in loaded ammo that would be worth checking out. Barnes makes a solid cover 140 that runs 20 bucks for 20. I'd like to check those out as well. I believe Elmer Keith said the 170 was optimum for the 357 so the Speer bullet has that going for it. I haven't seen the Speer bullet available, but when I do it's being added to the testing mix. I did also note they used a 550 with lil gun and 296 but 500s on the rest.

 

[Bfh_auto]

There are a few bonded options around, the gold dot and remmington now has one in loaded ammo that would be worth checking out. Barnes makes a solid cover 140 that runs 20 bucks for 20. I'd like to check those out as well. I believe Elmer Keith said the 170 was optimum for the 357 so the Speer bullet has that going for it. I haven't seen the Speer bullet available, but when I do it's being added to the testing mix. I did also note they used a 550 with lil gun and 296 but 500s on the rest.

I believe a lot of what time Keith said about the 357 and 44. He had a lot more experience than most.