However it's worth having. How many of our reloading manuals are cheap? With the properties of the components we're working with can we really have too much information?Well that ain't a cheap book!
Lil gun
- Thread starter AJC1
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AJC1
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I looked at Hodgdon's hazmat sheet and I failed to extract any useful data. Seems like it shouldn't be a big secret. Nitro content seems discussed often, inhibitors almost never....
https://shop.hodgdon.com/hodgdon-lil-gun/
Hooda Thunkit
Member
I have 2 pounds of #11FS, purchased a couple years ago to use in carbine loads. Haven't even cracked the seal yet.Want to see who gets around to it first...I'll give you the advantage of every other powder I'm testing first and longshot that I don't have yet.
I'll get there.
Soon.
Maybe.
Palladan44
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Not to deviate the thread, but I have to wonder why they [Hodgdon/WIN] created Lil' Gun? It's is very, very similar in performance to H-110/W-296. Same calibers, very similar performance.
I realize there is some difference, but their application windows almost Mirror one another identically.
Was Lil-Gun supposed to be the "new and improved" version or replacement for the 3/4s of a century old H-110/W296 formulation, but since H110/296 is so tried and true, that old customers like me still went to W296 (and I always will, I have 8 lbs of it) so Lil Gun never actually took over?
Lil Gun is reported to have less muzzle flash, and possibly get a small performance edge in certain situations. Whatever small edge that might be, I certainly don't care about.
I realize there is some difference, but their application windows almost Mirror one another identically.
Was Lil-Gun supposed to be the "new and improved" version or replacement for the 3/4s of a century old H-110/W296 formulation, but since H110/296 is so tried and true, that old customers like me still went to W296 (and I always will, I have 8 lbs of it) so Lil Gun never actually took over?
Lil Gun is reported to have less muzzle flash, and possibly get a small performance edge in certain situations. Whatever small edge that might be, I certainly don't care about.
tominboise
Member
With what bullet? I have a Hornet, some lilgun and some rem 6-1/2's....
Lil'Gun was created (warning !!! 
Internet Lore) for the 410 to achieve velocities at lower pressures.
It was then discovered that it really lowered metallic cartridge pressures for high velocities compared to the classic ball powders (110/296)
Unfortunately Lil'Gun was also discovered to be a bit unforgiving spike-wise if /when operated outside certain parameters -- and where cylinder gaps/top straps were present.
Used in closed-chamber/well-defined loadings, however, it gives 'extra-ordinary' results.
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Internet Lore) for the 410 to achieve velocities at lower pressures.It was then discovered that it really lowered metallic cartridge pressures for high velocities compared to the classic ball powders (110/296)
Unfortunately Lil'Gun was also discovered to be a bit unforgiving spike-wise if /when operated outside certain parameters -- and where cylinder gaps/top straps were present.
Used in closed-chamber/well-defined loadings, however, it gives 'extra-ordinary' results.
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Charlie98
Member
You would likely have to include 2400 and IMR4227 in there, too... and probably some others. Granted, W296/H110 work a bit differently, and then LilGun as well (because of the high nitro content.)
Playing with figures in QuickLoad... LilGun burns more completely than W296, all else being equal, in a 20" barrel, which probably explains the touch higher velocity and less flash some are mentioning. LilGun is one of those powders that burns better at the top end of pressure as well.
I'll leave all that LilGun for you guys, however... I'm not a big fan of TiteGroup, because of the high nitro content, and it sounds like LilGun is the same.
Palladan44
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I'm mostly saying because Lil Gun and WW296/H-110 are made by the same company.
I'll always expect competiting companies to make near copies of one another's powders.
Either way, Lil-Gun and W-296 have a lot more in common than either have with 2400...
A powder which I love, might I add.
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AJC1
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I always joked it was the magnum tightgroup
jmorris
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I really like the 35 grain V-max.
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AJC1
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I'm very curious now if lil gun is a double pressure peak powder. There are a lot of cool things they are doing with deterants and the double peak is a feature of the modern doublebase powder. One does not need a higher peak to get more velocity if one can grow the total length of the pressure event while the projectile is being pushed. It also would explain why the change in powder charge did not increase velocity in a meaningful way in the 10" test barrel. Meaning that barrel length is more of a limiting factor for speed than charge weight.
Charlie98
Member
I always joked it was the magnum tightgroup
Well... I think that's a valid argument.
Lil gun gave me better results pushing the 180 than a 158 in a 20" barrel.
It definitely shines when you use a long barrel and heavy bullets.
I'm curious what your results will be.
I went back to H110 because I like it better in my revolver and have a load that works in both.
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AJC1
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I'm only using a 16" but I will be favoring a heavy. This is probably a one and done pound, but I had to see for myself. Thinking it's best applied in hunting where speed equals ethical kills not paper and high volume.
I agree on both counts.
You'll like the accuracy and velocity for a hunting load.
bigpower491
Member
That was one they had at Jay's last weekend. Thought about grabbing a pound but I got so much powder right now that I didn't want to cut into my salt water taffy money........
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AJC1
Member
Just got back from bps with the materials to get the test rounds loaded as laid out in our discussion. Thanks to those who wheel and deal with me for brass....
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AJC1
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So here is what I'm working with. 15 pieces of brass with cci 550s. Looks like 13.0, 13.3 and 13.6 is our starting lineup with 180xtp.
Targa
Member
I am just asking out of curiosity because I don’t hunt so this is certainly just for my information but why not 13.5, 14 and 14.5 grains vs. 13, 13.3, 13.6. A spicier meatball is what’s in my head..
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AJC1
Member
It's my very first taste of this bullet and this powder so I'll be easing into her gently. I don't always practice what we preach but in a double variable I'm a lot more cautious. I looked up Hornadays oal out of their manual and they say 1.590 which would be good, except there cannalure isn't there. I went 1.585 but I could/should go deaper.I am just asking out of curiosity because I don’t hunt so this is certainly just for my information but why not 13.5, 14 and 14.5 grains vs. 13, 13.3, 13.6. A spicier meatball is what’s in my head..
GeoDudeFlorida
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The general rule of thumb is, crimp in the groove/canelure if present. The book OAL is based on their trim length.
eddiememphis
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What is a double peak pressure powder?
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AJC1
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Their trim is .005 longer so that's a little bit. I'll probably be single loading these at first....I know my marlin loves 1.585 so that's good at least. With the bearing surface on the 180 I have plenty of neck tension
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AJC1
Member
It's a burn curve where there is more than one peek pressure event and in some powders the second peak is higher... I was quite surprised to learn about it. If you want I'll track down the video.
