Limited options for .45 Colt?

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Texan Scott

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PLEASE, I'm not trying to rehash the .45 Colt/ .45 Long Colt' or '.44 vs. .45' arguments... I'm looking for answers to a couple questions, that's all. :)

First, is a hardcast 250gr at 1000 fps or so adequate for southern whitetail/ >400 lb hog? Is 75 yds a reasonable maximum range for this, (assuming the above-stated load in a 16" carbine)? Obviously, proper shot placement is the key ... proper shot placement is always the key.

Second, if I wereto try to (eventually, given the money) pair this with a .45 Colt revolver, what's a good full-sized carry option? I'm not thinking about CAS/SASS... more along the lines of a good N-frame DA. As best I can tell, my options in this caliber are kind of limited to Ruger Redhawks (heavy for light loads, but otherwise good), the current S&W classics offering (6.5" barrel's a bit much to pack), a very lucky find on the used market, or something single action (less than ideal for defensive carry - not UNDOABLE, just less than ideal IMHO).

I REALLY wish someone would make a 6-shot, 4-inch, fixed-sight .45 colt... :(
 
I am not qualified to address the stopping power of a 45 LC in deer or hogs as I do not game hunt. I can say a 250 grain bullet at 900-1000 fps is a powerful load.

S&W makes a compact Mountain Gun which while not as strong as a Redhawk, is certainly more powerful than a Colt SAA type.

The Ruger Blackhawk in 45 LC is thicker than a N frame and is probably a better choice for hot 45 LC loads.

Smith has made some 4 inch fixed sight N frames. I think it is a great concept.

Here are some loads that I shot in my N frame. Primers can make a surprising difference in velocity if you compare the last two data points.


M625-9withDeacceleratorGripsDSCN633.jpg


Code: 
[SIZE="3"]


M625-9 Mountain Gun 4" Barrel 



250 JHP 8.5 grs Unique thrown, W-W cases, WLP primers 
18-Mar-07 T = 55 °F V, accurate 
Ave Vel = 830 
Std Dev = 30 
ES= 103.5 
High= 893.4 
Low= 789.8 
Number Shots= 12 


250 Nosler JHP 17.5 grs 2400 thrown, Master cases, Fed150 primers 
18-Mar-07 T = 55 °F V, accurate uncomfortable recoil 
Ave Vel = 971 
Std Dev = 25 
ES= 69.47 
High= 1003 
Low= 933.5 
Number Shots= 11 



250 LRN (.454") Valiant 8.5 grs Unique thrown lot 5471, 4/3/06, R-P cases, WLP primers

25-Mar-07 T = 80 °F accurate 
Ave Vel = 891 
Std Dev = 17 
ES 61.31 
High 921.1 
Low 859.8 
Number Shots 27 



250 LSWC (.452") 10.5 grs AA#5 lot 12599 mixed cases WLP (nickel) 

23-Sep-07 T = 82 °F 

Ave Vel = 875.1 
Std Dev = 19.36 
ES = 62.64 
High = 905.7 
Low = 843 
N = 12 


250 LSWC (.452") 10.5 grs AA#5 lot 12599 mixed cases Wolf NCLP 

23-Sep-07 T = 82 °F 

Ave Vel = 826.2 
Std Dev = 20.14 
ES = 63.38 
High = 862.1 
Low = 798.7 
N = 12
  [/SIZE]
 
Well the .45 Colt is more of a nostalgia cartridge for CAS/SASS nowadays than a mainsteam HD/SD.


Most people gravitate towards .44 magnum. Greater variety of platforms to shoot it from and more ammo choices for hunting and HD/SD.

Yeah I know you didn't want a .44 vs .45 debate but it is what it is and frankly the vast majority of people prefer the .44.

The .45 Colt is just not popular enough for there to be a wide variety of options offered for it.
 
The 1873 era .45 Colt 255 RNFP/900 FPS black powder military load was intended to stop a calvary horse or Indian pony at longer range then you should be plinking at deer.

So yes, a 250 SWC at 1,000 will kill any deer or hog that poops in the woods.
Or two at the same time if one is standing behind the other one.

And I second the S&W Mountain Gun choice if you can find one.

They are very accurate, light enough to carry all day, and can be loaded to deer & hog stomper levels safely.

rc
 
I agree with RC, I have a Ruger Bisley in .45 and have loaded it well beyond .44 mag levels. If you do not reload, Buffolo bore and others makes the same loads. I would not hesitate to use such a load on an Elk, Moose, or buff.
In a S&W a hard cast 260-300gr @ around 1000 fps is a great all around load.
 
Actually, my thinking was this: anything i could hunt with a revolver, i could hunt BETTER with a carbine. Rather than try to wring 250 gr @ 1000 fps out of a handgun, which is a pretty hot load, hard on the hand, and violently, massively overpenetrative as a SD load, I could run a lead rnfp 250gr @ 750 fps (ish) in the revolver (less than 10% heavier, less than 10% slower than .45 acp gi ball, same size, prob. comparable performance, prob. still overpenetrative). That same load in a 16" carbine might easily run 1000-1050 fps, though, as good as a really HOT revolver load, but shoulder mounted and with a much longer sight radius (easier for me to shoot accurately). Obviously, for anything much fatrher away, a real rifle is called for... but for long range revolver/ near range carbine hunting, a one-box solution that keeps it all subsonic and still delivers the penetration needed on heavier-bodied hogs is attractive (also a nice truck gun option).
 
Also just realized some of my 'tactical' friends with their 'i-could-buy-FOUR-guns-for-that-price' AR BlackOut platforms are putting 300+ pound hogs down with 220 gr holllowpoint subsonics. I'm starting to think a handy little .45 carbine might be something i could justify to the wife. I'll tell her it's subsonic, to help preserve what hearing i have left in my right ear... and when she comes up with a sarcastic retort, i'll look up at her and say, "Sorry.... what?" :D
 
I have a 2" Taurus M450 Non-ported that I carry occasionally. Decently accurate and light to pack in Northern MN while in the back country.

However, I would prefer to hunt with a long gun every time.

Don
 
It seems to me that the Ruger Redhawk is the choice in a DA revolver for .45 Colt loads on the hot side. Some years ago I was looking for a S&W Mountain Gun (N Frame) in .45 Colt, and several people whose opinions I tend to credit suggested it wasn't a good choice for hotter .45 Colt loads.

The .44 Magnum works well in the N Frame because the cartridge is noticeably smaller in diameter, allowing sufficiently thick cylinder walls. But when chambered for .45 Colt the cylinder walls are thinner.
 
I do not have a Ruger, can someone tell me the diameter of the Ruger cylinder? I have a S&W and I am fairly certain the diameter is the same as the Ruger.
 
1000 fps with a properly constructed and shaped cast lead bullet in 45 Caliber will kill most anything you need killin' in the South. That is a soft load in a lever action carbine. And it's a fairly easy shooting load in a Blackhawk or N frame S&W. I'd use the same load in each, saves you the trouble of having to keep separate rounds on your person.

If you want a double action for carrying in the field, I would have to strongly recommend a 4" barreled S&W Model 25, or the Mountain Gun variant of such. I have a 45 Colt Mountain Gun, a newer model with the dreaded lock, and it is one of the most accurate guns I own. Just yesterday I was launching a 250 grain cast lead slug on top of 13 grains of HS-6 at a Coke can on the berm 50 yards away. One handed off hand. 'Bout every other shot I could send that can flying. Can't really ask for more than that.

Now the Mountain Gun is probably not the platform for trying to launch 335 grain slugs at 1200+ fps. I'd use a Blackhawk or a Redhawk for that. That's way overkill for deer, and even most hogs around here, though.
 
Texan Scott ...Actually, my thinking was this: anything i could hunt with a revolver, i could hunt BETTER with a carbine. Rather than try to wring 250 gr @ 1000 fps out of a handgun, which is a pretty hot load, hard on the hand, and violently, massively overpenetrative as a SD load,...
Click to expand...

1000 fps with a 260 grain cast bullet is easily doable in a revolver. With black powder I get that in a 7 1/2" revolver and only a little less with a 5 1/2" barrel. With smokeless and a 4" barrel is can be done much easier.

Will it be easier to hit with a carbine? Depends on how much practice you are willing to put in but generally, yes, it is easier to get hits with a longarm. Unless you are willing to put a lot of trigger time in with the revolver. Then, it is a matter of defining "easier". But the original black powder ballistics will be more than adequate for the game you seek.

Of the revolvers you mention, I have used the Model P and the S&W N frames. I also had and sold a few Rugers in 44 M and 45 long Colt. The Rugers were too heavy for my tastes. The Model P and the N frame better fill my needs for a revolver. Light and easily belted, the make ideal carry and shooting revolvers. Pairing either with a carbine would merely be icing on the cake. Good luck.
 
One option for the .45 Colt is to load it for a strong modern carbine like the Marlin '94. It will gain several hundred feet per second in a 20" non-vented barrel. The only real drawback is that short blunt pistol bullets lose velocity very quickley no matter how fast they are started. Still, at reasonable woods distances heavy bullets will smash through a wild boar broadside and leave a big hole.
 
I REALLY wish someone would make a 6-shot, 4-inch, fixed-sight .45 colt...
Click to expand...
Like one of the old or new Ruger Vaquero models? 4-3/4" oops. My bad.

Or were you talking DA?
 
^ thinking DA...

Basically, what I'm toying with is the idea of finding (or if necessary, developing) not a revolver hunting cartidge, but a heavy bullet, near-range, barely subsonic .45 Colt carbine cartridge that makes efficient use of powder in a longer barrel, which also approximates .45 ACP GI ball ballistics (or even slightly less) in a revolver for general purpose SD/HD use. I think with the right powder, 250 gr RNFP @ 700-750 fps from a revolver and 1000-1050 fps from a carbine is doable; much would seem to depend on the powder's burn rate. This would actually be a fairly light load by a handgun hunter's standard.

Honestly, I have never even considered taking up reloading before... but I may eventually do so if there's a good, practical reason for it, such as finding the .45 Colt load that puts meat in my family's freezer AND doubles as a good SD/HD round.

Because there could be 300 fps difference between the two firearms, I think hollowpoints are probably not the best idea, and given that the .45 is already large enough that I'm unconcerned with expansion (as I certainly would be with .30-30), softpoints may be unnecessary, which is why I'm thinking RNFP.

Obviously, at high velocity a RNFP will massively overpenetrate human beings. Since I'm not worried about bullet expansion, adding more initial velocity won't result in appreciable added energy delivered to a human predator; It'll just result in the bullet going faster post- exit. (Oddly, the danger posed by dynamic overpenetration isn't what bothers me; one clean miss could be worse than any overpenetraion anyway. It's the engineer in me... the inefficiency of adding powder only to waste it on something other than the target irks me.)

On a fair-sized game animal though, the added penetration might be needed, which is where picking up an extra 300 fps or so might help. Still, keeping it subsonic makes it more comfortable to shoot (both recoil and noise) and optimal powder efficiency should minimize muzzle flash in the carbine (important as hog hunting particularly may be a somewhat crepuscular activity).
 
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The DA with fixed sights is real limiting if new is your preference. Older Colt New Service might fit the bill as might some of S&W's new classic 25 or 1917 clones, but not in 4 inch that I've ever seen. I know there are some 4" 25s around tho'. Good luck finding one of those as well. Hens teeth scarce.

If you ever get a chance and stumble across a 4" Anaconda in .45 Colt, and are richer than Warren Buffet, grab it. You can deal with the sights later. (of course if you can afford that you can afford to have a reputable smith modify anything you find to fit your needs... ya know?)

.45 Colt is a good enough reason to reload anyway.
 
Having acquired a Taurus Judge a couple of years ago, I quickly realized that it was too expensive to shoot. I think I'm going to sell all the .45 LC and just keep shells in it. Good thing the price has gone up, I might make a couple of bucks on it.
 
Texan Scott said:
PLEASE, I'm not trying to rehash the .45 Colt/ .45 Long Colt' or '.44 vs. .45' arguments... I'm looking for answers to a couple questions, that's all. :)

First, is a hardcast 250gr at 1000 fps or so adequate for southern whitetail/ >400 lb hog? Is 75 yds a reasonable maximum range for this, (assuming the above-stated load in a 16" carbine)? Obviously, proper shot placement is the key ... proper shot placement is always the key.

Second, if I wereto try to (eventually, given the money) pair this with a .45 Colt revolver, what's a good full-sized carry option? I'm not thinking about CAS/SASS... more along the lines of a good N-frame DA. As best I can tell, my options in this caliber are kind of limited to Ruger Redhawks (heavy for light loads, but otherwise good), the current S&W classics offering (6.5" barrel's a bit much to pack), a very lucky find on the used market, or something single action (less than ideal for defensive carry - not UNDOABLE, just less than ideal IMHO).

I REALLY wish someone would make a 6-shot, 4-inch, fixed-sight .45 colt... :(
Click to expand...
Don't think that this kind of load is the -only- option you have in 45 Colt, because it isn't, even if you limit yourself to Factory Ammo. If you reload, you can tailor the load to the job at hand. For HEAVY reloads, in a revolver, make sure you are using one of the Rugers, or a revolver built for 454 Casull. I've got some 45 Colt loads for my Rossi M92 lever rifle (454 Casull) that will push a 250 grain JHP downrange at 2100+fps. I think that would stop just about anything in North America at 200 yards or less.

As for your carry options ... there really are not that many, but there are a few. My personal "pocket carry" for 45 Colt is a Taurus 450 UltraLite. 5 round, snubby revolver with a ported barrel. Not made any more, but you can find them around once in a while. I buy every one I can find and generally have no trouble re-selling them.

45 Colt ain't dead yet by a fer piece! A very versatile cartridge, wide power range, very easy to handle and reload.
 
Lex Luthier said:
Having acquired a Taurus Judge a couple of years ago, I quickly realized that it was too expensive to shoot. I think I'm going to sell all the .45 LC and just keep shells in it. Good thing the price has gone up, I might make a couple of bucks on it.
Click to expand...
Reload Lex, reload. You can feed 45 Colt to that Judge for about 17 cents / round.

Did you keep your brass?
 
Those 2000 fps loads are not needed. This is an excerpt from an article, written by Jeff Quinn, about the Lil Sharps chambered in 45 long Colt.

...The Swede’s lovely daughter, Meg, took a bison with that Little Sharps at Hog Wild Hunting Preserve. She used a hard cast lead 260 grain Keith bullet running about 1175 feet-per-second from the muzzle of the Little Sharps, and the bullets gave complete penetration through the ribs of that nine-hundred pound buff...
Click to expand...

Complete pentration with a 1200 fps load from a rifle. PRobably 1000 fps from a revolver, or maybe only 900 fps!
 
I know a 200gr. JHP in 45 Colt at 1100fps is more than capable of taking a Whitetail, so a heavier cast bullet at near that speed should be no trouble. :)

9.jpg
 
I have a "fun" load for my Blackhawk Vaquero 4 5/8" that drives a 255gr LSWC to an average velocity of 1096fps. That is about 670 ftlbs and a Taylor KO of 18. It;s fun to shoot and I'm sure it would be fine for the deer/ black bear/hogs of the size that inhabit East TN. If you want to know more about what loads like this will do google John Linebaugh, he wrote great articles on the .45 Colt cartridge.
 
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