LIMP WRIST vs. NEW EJECTOR - GLOCK 27

[Sunfish49]

Posting this, gleaned from another site this because I agree and had a similar experience in a solution........

Gotta say after 6.5 years with my Glock 27, I have no complaints except for the snap and am still dealing with that. Hickok45 videos do help a little bit, he's a G27 lover from way back.



SO when it began failure to feed, objections to feed, call all that what you will, I began to feel OLD & weak when reading about limp wristing. I work out, walk/carry golf, daily exercise, shoot Glock & a revolver weekly ... so ?!?!?!?



So one by one started to replace springs, et al. no matter what the real deals/pros suggest as a routine schedule, until I got to the ejector, its spring already replaced within a month. The old one was a bit shiny but naked eye couldn't see any wear/tear. Presto/chango first time @ range, I tried everything "bad" to encourage a failure, even a hiccup ... all like new again.



Am posting this for lack of a real presence on all these forums for helpful ejector solutions ... I think I found only one when over 33 dismissed the poor guy as a sissy limp wrister or even more draconian, dismissing Glock with no particulars. Why post ignorance? Just my ignorant opinion....

 

[Panzerschwein]

Luckily this place is different. We are a kind people here, and won't judge.

I know what you mean about some forums where people are either of no help or are mean. Sometimes the best thing to do is go with your gut and try and solve problems yourself if you can't get a good answer from other interneters.

 

[Peter Gun]

Yes, hate the "limpwristing" response to Glock problems. If you have a stock Glock it should be able to function just fine with any grip. If it doesn't function, somethings wrong with the gun, not the shooter.
Not hitting what you aim at, that's a different story.

 

[tarosean]

Yes, hate the "limpwristing" response to Glock problems. If you have a stock Glock it should be able to function just fine with any grip.

Prevalent enough that its in the armorers manual.. Although I do agree with you... Too many people like to make excuses..

 

[Peter Gun]

Wow, didn't realize it was even in the manual. I guess they have to CYA.
I test all my carry guns with bad grip, shooting upside down, shooting in the cold, filled with snow.
Never had a malfunction except when I found a defective part such as a worn out recoil spring on a police trade in sig I had.
It seems silly that you would have to have a perfect grip for a gun that is designed to be reliable in extreme situations. How good is your grip when your are lying on the ground injured and shooting one handed? Maybe with your off hand?

 

[SwampWolf]

Wow, didn't realize it was even in the manual. I guess they have to CYA.

I find it telling that I've never seen an admonition about "limp-wristing" in any manual of the many different semi-auto pistols that I own. I also find it "silly that you would have to have a perfect grip for a gun that is designed to be reliable in extreme situations".

 

[hemiram]

If a gun of mine "limp wrists" and I can't solve it by putting parts in it or cleaning it, it's gone. I've had a few over the years that needed to be held like I was trying to crush them. The gun in the avatar shoots fine with a ridiculously weak grip, and so does it's all satin nickel newer twin. Even trying to limp wrist them doesn't cause them any issues. I don't presently own anything that I have to hold with what I consider a really tight grip/wrist. I guess the touchiest gun I have now, is a Taurus PT111 G2. I have to make sure I don't hold it so my fingers slow down the slide enough to make it mess up. That's just me, not the gun. My larger guns are all good to go, even the polymer ones. Not a Glock, M&P, XD, or a 1911 among them.

 

[boatdoc173]

the whole idea behind a "limp wrist" is difficult to understand and get past (IMHO). I have read and been taught NOT to use a lot of grip power with my shooting hand and YET I am supposed to tighten my wrist(lock it) in place which is done by the same muscles and tendons used to tightly grip a gun. So , my findings are that you will either over grip the gun by tightening up the muscles/tendons from your forearm, or if you leave the grip loose, lock you elbows straight in order to tighten up the wrist and "lock it"
the compromise I use is a bit of isometric push/pull. I pull back harder with my support hand and I push forward into the support hand with my shooting hand. I leave my shooting hand grip somewhat loose on its own and use the support hand as a shooting rest with a bit of pull back to lock the shooting hand at the wrist. It is th e best I can do to achieve a non limp wrist while shooting
anyone have a better way?

 

[Walt Sherrill]

Am posting this for lack of a real presence on all these forums for helpful ejector solutions ... I think I found only one when over 33 dismissed the poor guy as a sissy limp wrister or even more draconian, dismissing Glock with no particulars. Why post ignorance? Just my ignorant opinion...

It seems to me -- I'm wasn't a physics major, so I may be all wrong about this -- that If you don't hold the wrist in a relatively fixed position (but not necessarily with a death's hold on the gun grip), the slide and barrel have a "less" resistant base against which to push and some of the rearward force might be subtly shifted upwards via muzzle flip. That might mean that not quite as much of the recoil force will be transferred directly to the rear and into the recoil spring. That, in turn, might mean there won't be as much stored energy to strip and chamber the next round as the slide begins its return trip.

This doesn't mean that any of the problems you experienced were due to a "limp wrist" but it might explain why limp-wristing, as a shooter practice, might cause the gun to behave in an unexpected way.

the whole idea behind a "limp wrist" is difficult to understand and get past (IMHO). I have read and been taught NOT to use a lot of grip power with my shooting hand and YET I am supposed to tighten my wrist(lock it) in place which is done by the same muscles and tendons used to tightly grip a gun.

Re: wrist strength and grip strength:

I think the two types of muscle control you describe are only indirectly related. Holding the gun loosely (i.e., not like it's in a vice) doesn't mean your wrist must also be loosely held (which could allow up/down movement at that pivot point.) You can lock/firm up your wrist without locking up your fingers.

Being focused on a very firm grip can cause some folks to squeeze the gun grip while they're squeezing the trigger, with unwanted results -- which has nothing to do with the real or imagined issue of limp-wristing.

 

[L-2]

I found this thread confusing. I think the original post said the "ejector" "spring" was replaced. The ejector doesn't have a spring.
The main problem(s) was/were failures to feed, which was a bit vague for me.
Otherwise, it sounds as if the shooter and G27 are once again working as it/they should.

 

[Sunray]

Limp wristing is usually more about the load and the recoil. Sometimes a too light return spring with hot ammo will cause it too. Hasn't got anything to do with the ejector though.
You shouldn't have to replace springs except trigger pull related springs on a new pistol. Change ammo before doing anything like that.
"...the slide and barrel have a "less" resistant..." Just the slide. But yep, a death grip isn't good either. Not enough grip on a 27 for a death grip anyway.

 

[jhb]

good info thank you Sir.

in fairness many many folks hold guns too loose. some of them have great accuracy shooting even with their sloppy loose grip. see it all the time. they dont realize it cause they hit the target well and cant see beyond that. they were trained poorly and refuse to relearn. this is where that limp wristing term came from. the term alone puts people on the defensive. had they called it a loose grip bet folks wouldnt have gotten so butt hurt and on the defensive so quickly.

all that said proper operating pistols dont jam and misfeed from a looser grip alone and by itself.

 

[M1key]

Mas says hold 'em tight.

M

 

[SwampWolf]

If a gun of mine "limp wrists" and I can't solve it by putting parts in it or cleaning it, it's gone.

Yep-adios for me too.

 

[hemiram]

Well, it only makes sense that there is something "wrong" with guns that do it, since most do not. Probably the most heated gun discussion I've ever had was with a friend's brother who insisted that any gun will "limp wrist" if held "loosely", which seemed to be as tight as you could hold it without shaking, even though I had several that could be held just to the point they didn't fly out of your hand when they were fired with no issues. I think his opinion was because he pretty much only shot 1911s, but he was, IMHO, a little off in general.

 

[rskent]

the compromise I use is a bit of isometric push/pull. I pull back harder with my support hand and I push forward into the support hand with my shooting hand. I leave my shooting hand grip somewhat loose on its own and use the support hand as a shooting rest with a bit of pull back to lock the shooting hand at the wrist. It is th e best I can do to achieve a non limp wrist while shooting
anyone have a better way?

I think so.

Just get your strong hand behind the gun. Your pistol needs something stationary to recoil against.

Your idea of push pull seems common, but if you think about it one hand is fighting the other.

Your strong hand pushing is helping the gun function. The support hand pulling is helping the gun not function.

Most of the people that I see at the range with “limp wristing “problems seem the be reaching around the gun to get a better trigger finger placement and not getting the web if their hand behind the gun.

 

[PabloJ]

Posting this, gleaned from another site this because I agree and had a similar experience in a solution........

Gotta say after 6.5 years with my Glock 27, I have no complaints except for the snap and am still dealing with that. Hickok45 videos do help a little bit, he's a G27 lover from way back.



SO when it began failure to feed, objections to feed, call all that what you will, I began to feel OLD & weak when reading about limp wristing. I work out, walk/carry golf, daily exercise, shoot Glock & a revolver weekly ... so ?!?!?!?



So one by one started to replace springs, et al. no matter what the real deals/pros suggest as a routine schedule, until I got to the ejector, its spring already replaced within a month. The old one was a bit shiny but naked eye couldn't see any wear/tear. Presto/chango first time @ range, I tried everything "bad" to encourage a failure, even a hiccup ... all like new again.



Am posting this for lack of a real presence on all these forums for helpful ejector solutions ... I think I found only one when over 33 dismissed the poor guy as a sissy limp wrister or even more draconian, dismissing Glock with no particulars. Why post ignorance? Just my ignorant opinion....

I think "limp wrist" is figment of Glock People Inc. imagination. Having owned four I have to say they are very reliable pistols. Never had stoppage due to what I thought was "limp wrist" though I had a few due to ammunitions used.

 

[Walt Sherrill]

I think that ISOMETRIC grip helps you hold the gun on target more steadily, but it doesn't make the gun cycle any better. As rskent and other have noted, the key thing is using one hand to keep a solid base against which the gun can push. I've never had problems with limp-wrist issues, and I don't hold the gun with a death grip.

 

[GooseGestapo]

Well, whatever.
I watched a young man (20 something) shoot a Glock G19 genIV. He had several failures to feed.
I asked him if I could try some of my ammo through it. Hornady 115XTP over 5.2gr of WSF. Chrono's 1,155 from my 4" 5906PC. All 10 fed and shot a 1" group at 7yds a little left of POA.
I let him fire some. 5 failed to feed. (These cycle my PPC9 "Limited" 6" bbl).
He was bending both arms in some sort of pseudo Weaver stance. I showed him a proper isocales straight arm stance and proper grip position. Voila, full magazine w/o hiccups.
He promptly returned to former form. Gun resumed ftf. He then packed up and left.
You can't fix hard headed!

 

[SwampWolf]

I think that ISOMETRIC grip helps you hold the gun on target more steadily, but it doesn't make the gun cycle any better.

That's been my experience too.

 

[Sunfish49]

Update: since original post caved into temptation for new SA Mod.2 45 with extra gear/mags deal, lower price that is a tack hammer, trigger from paradise and a joy w/o any problems whatsoever + CT green laser - WOW what a relief this is.
The Glock 27 now has a 357sig barrel, tungsten 14# recoil that alternates with factory 16# using 125gr AmEagleFMJ.
The 14# might not return to battery fully sometimes, the 16# will not always feed (from stovepipe to 1/2 into breech) both regardless of magazine. Yes, the tungsten dies help a bit getting closer to double taps.
Shooting one handed does not change results for better or worse.
UGH
Now at a crossroads
1) love the comment - if it does not work for me, it's outta here ... no more money thrown after bad
2) love the new Crimson Trace green laser/light coming out that fits it + tempted by a 16# tungsten recoil spring $70 (not available for 357sig SigSauer, HK, etc.)
3) 357sig can do more than a 45, more capacity than the 357mag .....
4) give it up for a 8-shot 357mag revolver (no green laser)

Decisions, decisions ... tiring of tweaking Glocks, never in love with its trigger, all that tweak money ...

 

[JeffG]

Yes, hate the "limpwristing" response to Glock problems. If you have a stock Glock it should be able to function just fine with any grip. If it doesn't function, somethings wrong with the gun, not the shooter.
Not hitting what you aim at, that's a different story.

"Limpwristing has other implications that are negative; shooters don't usually respond to that label. Switching to a firm Weaver, to include a good shoulder shift, and bladed foot placement, stance usually solves a lot of problems. Push forward with your firing grip, and pull back with your support hand. Just a thought. In defense, a lot of shooters are uncomfortable with the G27's felt recoil.

 

[the duck of death]

"QUOTE"
How good is your grip when your are lying on the ground injured and shooting one handed? Maybe with your off hand?

Excellent, I shoot a Glock 29 10mm every other day weak handed. I'm 83.

 

[JeffG]

"QUOTE"
How good is your grip when your are lying on the ground injured and shooting one handed? Maybe with your off hand?

Excellent, I shoot a Glock 29 10mm every other day weak handed.

For some reason, most of the one handed shooting techniques have no problem; straight, locked wrist...

 

[lysanderxiii]

Yes, hate the "limpwristing" response to Glock problems. If you have a stock Glock it should be able to function just fine with any grip. If it doesn't function, somethings wrong with the gun, not the shooter.
Not hitting what you aim at, that's a different story.

Well, how you grip any recoil-operated pistol will have an effect on its function. And, yes you can "limp-wrist" one.



Very lightweight, polymer framed pistols are more prone to this type problem, as the mass of the frame is less than a steel framed pistol and requires more user provided resistance to the recoil for proper cycling. But, that is not to say that all malfunction in a Glock are due to "limp-wristing".