"Limpwristing" a Rifle?

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Drakejake

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Most of us know that a semi-automatic pistol can jam if the shooter's arms and wrists are insufficiently rigid during firing. What about a semi-automatic rifle? Can the bolt fail to go into battery if the shooter allows recoil to push him back, thereby depriving the action of needed energy? Today I had some failures to go into battery when I fired my FAL while standing. The mag had previously passed several tests and there were no jams when I fired the rifle with the same mag while sitting. The tip of the bullet was not stuck against the feed ramp and chambered when I racked the cocking handle.

Drakejake
 
Not sure if that's what's happening with your gun, but it seems it could be sort of a "last straw" factor if the load is already weak. I have had it happen with shotguns, but only when firing from the hip.
 
With my admittedly limited logic, it seems like "limpwristing" would hamper extraction, not returning to battery.

You may want to add a little oil/grease as well.

I'm not very familiar with the FAL, but I've had my M1A not go completely into battery. It got to the point were I couldn't even push it closed (gently) with the operating handle. Some of the sages on this site told me that grease (not just oil) is a necessity on the op rod and other frictiony spots of M1s and M1As. I took their advice (plus did a little chamber scrubbing) and it's worked like gangbusters ever since.

Do FALs require the same attention?

LG
 
I've done it with my .22. Basically not putting the butt in my shoulder trying to be more accurate.
 
I'm no expert and I have no experience with FAL's but my guess is that it's a worn out spring or lack of lube.

Besides, everybody knows that the limpwristing myth is an excuse for an unreliable weapon.:neener:
 
My M1A will not fully eject cases sometimes when I shoot it offhand. I'll find the bolt locked back but the fired case sitting in the open receiver (rounds loaded singly in a match environment). The same loads are ejected with authority when the rifle is fired from the sitting and prone positions. I always attributed this to the fact that the rifle is not supported as solidly by my shoulder when I'm standing.
 
BULLCRAP ALERT!!!!

Ahem, uh, "limpwristing" is generally relevant only to recoil-operated firearms, semiauto or full-auto.

Think about it, gents (and gentlewomenfolk, too ;-)). It's the GAS that pushes the works back, not recoil, so a "firm" shoulder is not required. Ask eClancy about the M1 Garand--it was fully tested fired suspended from strings, muzzle and buttstock, to disprove Luddite-style doubts about its reliability, before it was ever fielded.

Gas to open it up, spring to push it back forward. If the rifle requires a "bounce" of the reciprocating parts at the back of the stroke to get "enough energy" to chamber the next round, then it would also ALWAYS require a forward-assist when you are loading your first round (tripped off the bolt release = LESS energy, only the mere spring from at least half an inch less compression than the operating cycle).

If that's the case, your rifle has a problem.

Matt-man, you need to look at your rifle's ejector spring and plunger, and possibly your extractor. There should be enough "fling" action to it to sent both loaded and unfired rounds, and empty cases, clear of the op rod hump. What you describe is a situation where the cases are barely flubbing out there, then are getting whacked clear of the action as the op rod goes forward. On your last shot, the op rod stays back and your empty rattles around above the mag well and falls where you find it. Your last round's empty case *should* fall about 4:00 o'clock from your firng position, most of the rest should be at about 2:00 o'clock because a properly operating M1 or M14 type will bounce the cases off the op rod hump as the next round is chambered.

BTW, any recoil-operated pistol subject to "limp-wrist" jams is either messed up, or being fed ammo that is (a) too lightly loaded, or (b) badly dimensioned in bullet profile/seating depth so there is excessive friction or crunching on the feed cycle.

My semiauto pistols WILL feed reliably when lightly held 45 degrees off the angle of my forearm (no mass directly behind them), one finger on the grip just below the trigger guard and just my thumb on the back of the grip.

You don't have to be a "manly man" with a death grip on a gun to get reliable function--IF the thing is right to begin with.

Check your FAL's extractor to see whether it is properly allowing the round to slip under it on the feed cycle, or properly snapping over the case rim as the bolt slams home. (Sorry, I can't remember if the FAL's bolt face operates like a M1911 pistol (slip-under "controlled feed" like a Mauser) or an AR-15-type (case goes in chamber, extractor snaps over).).
 
Sorry Grump, you are wrong on this one. The FAL has a much different P/T curve, and the arrangment of Forces are much different on a FAL than a M1.

FAL's are so notorious for "limp wristing" that the official Belgiun instrustion manuel calls for setting the gas while the rifle is held "limp" at your side, not while held aganst the shoulder. Start with the gas regulator compleatly closed with one round in the mag. Fire the weapon from a "limp wristed" hold out to your side and open the gas regulator one shot and one click at a time untill the bolt will not stay open after the last shot. Now close the gas regulator 2 clicks (that is one more click than it takes to keep the bolt open after the last shot is fired to insure opperation in any position).

I can get my FAL to fail to keep the bolt open on the last shot by "limp wristing" and opening the gas up all the way. The same setting works perfect from the shoulder.

Some people can get their FAL to not eject by limp wristing... the bolt extracts, and bolt carrier travels rearward, but not enough to eject.. and then fired, enlarged brass gets jammed back into the chamber, requiring the "pogo" to remove the brass (bounceing the rifle butt on the ground while retracting the cocking handle). You will see the uninformed using a boot on the charging handle to perform the same operation.

Grump is correct, in a perfect world your FAL should not have a problem going into battery because of "limp-wristing", just a problem with holding the bolt back.
Because of the non-FN receivers, old and worn out parts, "angry-beaver" gunsmiths, shortened barrels, ect... this IS a problem with FAL's.

I would expect with a correct gas adjustment Drakejakes problem will go away.

I would also check for gas loss anywhere, piston binding, carrier interfearence on dustcover, sticky extractor, sharp feed rails, mag problem, gas port diameter on shortened barrel, or still rough from new park.
 
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