LnL AP Arrived

[NavArch]

Every time I had looked at the Hornady LnL AP on the MidSouth web site, it had been noted as having a really good price, but not being in stock. So, after getting a Cabella's Cash Card in the mail, I planned to buy the LnL there. When throwing in the value of the Cash Card that would be generated by purcchasing the LnL, the calculated value of the two sources would be within $1, IF THE ROAD TRIP TO CABELLA'S IS NOT CONSIDERED.

Lo, and Behold! A check of the MidSouth site on Labor Day showed the note "Low Stock". I called them on Tuesday and Connie told me they had one in stock. I order it, and it arrived on Thursday. Four business days delivery promised, two days actual. MidSouth's price, and no gas expended. The Hornady "Get Loaded" form goes in the mail tomorrow.

Report on my final setup and experience to follow.

 

[Bowfishrp]

So it was YOU who put them on backorder until November 13th! At least that's what the website says.

I just sent off a get loaded form for one of their die sets so we will see how long that takes. With the free bullets the LnL is an even better buy!

 

[Canuck-IL]

Disassemble and clean the entire powder drop, tube included, very thoroughly....dies also - they use a tenacious greasy film for shipping/storage.
Great press!
/Bryan

 

[zxcvbob]

I've been thinking about getting a Hornady AP, without the case feeder. Not sure if it's that much faster than what I've got now (old C&H single-stage 3-station "H" press) I can load 100 9mm cartridges in a half hour with it, but that was rushing more than I really should have. I usually go slower so I can double-check everything.

How easy is it to achieve, say, 350 rounds per hour loading 9mm, .38 Specials, or .45 Colts? Can I use my Lee dies in it, or will I need to come up with a new crimp die?

I also can find anywhere a list of what comes with the basic press and what you have to order extra (like shell plates. Does one come with it?)

Thanks,
Bob

 

[1911user]

The LNL-AP is infamous for 9mm ejection difficulty. Make sure you understand the pros and cons before ordering one. BTDT and don't have it any more.

 

[MattB000]

How easy is it to achieve, say, 350 rounds per hour loading 9mm, .38 Specials, or .45 Colts? Can I use my Lee dies in it, or will I need to come up with a new crimp die?

With the case feeder, this certainly sounds reasonable. I haven't actually timed it, but I've loaded 1000 .38 special in 1 night (3-5 hours, but like I said, I didn't time it). You can use your lee dies, but the crimp die will likely interfere with the ejection wire assuming you have a powder cop or something else occuping another position. If you skip the powder cop, you can put the crimp in station 4 and leave station 5 empty. I've also heard about people grinding thier dies down, but I've never done that.

I also can find anywhere a list of what comes with the basic press and what you have to order extra (like shell plates. Does one come with it?)

From what I can remember, it's the press, bushings, powder measure, and primer feed assembly. Unless I'm missing something, anything else you don't have you'll need to get (including a shell plate). Also, you'll want to get a bushing for every die you are going to want to use on the press. I think it comes with 5, but it probably isn't a bad idea to have a few spares incase new dies wander in on thier own.

 

[NavArch]

Included:
Press
Powder Measure & Case Activated Powder Drop, including the lower assembly that screws into a LnL bushing.
A set of 3 sleeves that drop down into the CAPD lower assembly, and are used to accommodate cases of different height.
5 LnL bushings
Plastic Akro bin for completed cartridges

Mine came with the priming mechanism fully assembled, and with a spare set of pieces needed to do same. The instructions assume that the priming mechanism is not installed when it arrives.

If you are going to do the "powder thru expander" thing, you will need to order an expander bushing. This expander bushing takes the place of the sleeve discussed above. It and the pre-attached drop tube are the only things that fit into the CAPD lower assembly when loading .40S&W.

To load .40S&W a bit more accurately that would otherwise be the case, I also got a replacement rotor and metering plunger made specificially for handgun loads. In this rotor, the cavity is smaller than the standard rotor, so it is easier to adjust it more precisely.

Adjusting the CAPD and PXD - I called the factory. My translation of what the gentleman in technical said is:
0. Remove the primer tube so you don't have to fight with it. It can easily be screwed into place after fitting up the CAPD/PXD.
1. Place a case in the shellplate and raise it under the CAPD/PXD.
2. Screw the CAPD lower assembly down into the LnL bushing until the expander contacts the case. At this point, the metering plunger will be more or less horizontal.
3. Experiment with screwing the CAPD into the LnL bushing until the point at which the metering plunger is at full "throw" (up against the body of the powder dispenser) when the press' handle is in the full down position.
4. This should expand the case properly and get you a full throw of powder.
5. Depending on the bullet profile and case length, you may also need to adjust the distance between the dispenser body and the ring that the CAPD linkage attaches to. [THIS IS THE STEP I AM PERSONALLY AT RIGHT NOW AND CANNOT VOUCH FOR NUANCES IN THIS ARENA.]

Word of warning - The instructions were written by someone who assumed that you have done this before and know the Hornady names for all of the pieces-parts. Some of the steps appeared to be out of order (like teling you to install the primer tube before installing the CAPD, which can't be screwed into place with the primer tube installed. Read thru the instructions, ask questions on the forum, call the Hornady 800 number, but do not force anything into position. It won't be necessary.

 

[bugs100]

I have to agee that the Hornady instructons leave a lot out and are really confusing.

What they don't tell you could fill a book about how to make mistakes. Here's a few of them, that they should have put in to the instructions.

The powder measure comes with the rifle rotor and measuring stem and is useless for loading most pistol rounds. You have to order the pistol measure and stem.

The machine comes with the large primer punch installed and the small primer punch is in a plastic bag.

Clean the primer slide and the primer punch constantly to avoid problems. When the punch or the slide gets dirty they cause the slide to hang up or worse peen the end of the slide.

Make sure the primer tube is centered and in firmly when you change them. Or else your going to end up frustrated and wondering where the primers are.

Run a little powdered graphite through the powder measure when it's installed or else the powder measure will hang up and give you problems.

When you use any other die than a Hornady in the 5th station just flip up the ejector wire and take them out by hand. .

Every 50-60 rounds check the bolt in the center that holds the shell plate down, they become loose fast. When that happens it throws the shell plate off and causes the retaing clip in the bottom of the powder measure to break and the pistol measure falls out. When that happens you have a week wait for a new one.

Buy a lot of shell retaining springs the ones that go around the shell plate, you'll need them. Also get more bushings than you think your going to need I have 20 and need more already.

If you think you might need some thing in the future order it now their always out of every thing and put you on back order.

If you need some thing because it broke don't talk to any one but the tech guys they will send it to you for free, any one else will charge you.

Don't get me wrong it's a great press and I've reloaded 18,000 rounds so far this year. But it has it's little quirks just like any other press.

 

[DickM]

I got my LNL AP (from MidSouth - love that place) a couple weeks ago. +1 to everything bugs100 had to say. I had one more wrinkle that may be of help. I was having trouble with the primer feed "missing" about every tenth primer. I could feel that no primer was there on the seating stroke, and with the spring mechanism that holds the cases into the shell holder it was relatively simple to stop and fix things, but it sure was slowing the process down. I found that the little metal tube that the primer slide bears on when the press is actuated is adjustable via the set screw on the top of the press, and backing it out a smidge so the primer slide had a longer travel in each cycle solved the problem. Now my press is humming along like clockwork.

 

[NavArch]

Bugs100! You are the man. Thanks for the tip about the large v. small primer punch. That would have caused all sorts of problems if you hadn't said anything. Should I bother repeating my comment about Hornady instructions?

 

[zxcvbob]

The powder measure comes with the rifle rotor and measuring stem and is useless for loading most pistol rounds. You have to order the pistol measure and stem.

That's good to know. So I should order a .45 Colt shell plate to start with instead of 9mm. What powder were you using with the large measuring chamber? I wonder if it would work OK with small-ish charges of light fluffy powders.

I have a C&H powder measure that looks almost just like the Hornady AP powder measure (its just a little bigger diameter) and the C&H has a small chamber. I have trouble with it being almost too small sometimes. I wonder if the Hornady trip linkage would work with the C&H measure? (I know that's too much to ask...)

This just moved up a notch on my todo list; I need a powder measure that can handle .30-06 loads for my old press, and the rifle powder chamber for my old measure costs $22 plus shipping. I looked at a Hornady powder measure today at Gander Mountain and it will fit just fine on my old press.

Bob

 

[Master Blaster]

Every 50-60 rounds check the bolt in the center that holds the shell plate down, they become loose fast. When that happens it throws the shell plate off and causes the retaing clip in the bottom of the powder measure to break and the pistol measure falls out. When that happens you have a week wait for a new one.

Skip the pistol rotor unless you are using ball powder. If you use a flake type powder like unique, 231, trailboss, you will have a problem with bridging and squibb loads. The rifle rotor that comes with the measure works OK so long as you keep the measure 3/4 full. Hornady needs to make a baffle for their measure, and they also need to make a pistol rotor with a larger opening.

 

[bugs100]

If you want to load any caliber in the future order it ahead of time. I've had a lot of shell plates put on back order and I've had to wait for dies and other little parts too. They told me their selling so many presses that their alot of orders for these things.

The powder measure with the pistol rotor and standard metering insert makes life a lot easier when your measuring small amounts of powder, 3.1-11grs loads are easy to set up and very consistant.

I use a lot of Unique, blue dot and my favorite W231 and the loads are always dead on, within a 1/10 of a gr. The powder measure is great it's a simple design but it's very accurate and I just visally check every load and only pull about ever 25th round to weigh.

I have a light on the wall behind the press and a ceiling light hanging over my shoulder and a high bar chair to sit on, so I can see into every shell.

Unlike a lot of guys, I don't like to use the belling station and powder measure together. It's a lot of work to setup and I perfer to just setup the press like this. It makes changing to different size shells real fast.

1. sizing/depriming
2. Belling
3.powder measure
4.seating
5. Lee FCD with the ejector wire left up out of the way.

I had a love and hate thing going with the ejector wire. The hate part won out. I never use it and found it's easier to just take the round out. I glance at each round to make sure the primers seated all right.

I got in to a habit of loading for a hour at a time almost night between 6-7. I load for a hour then clean the press reload all the tubes and I'm ready for the next night.

I use to seat and crimp all my revolver rounds at the same time but found it easier to just buy a Lee FCD for each one. I loaded a 1000 41mags, 500 44 MAGS, 1200 38's and 500 357's never had any bullet set back when shooting them so I guess the lee fcd works fine on these rounds.

I just finshed loading 3500 45acp's with 5.3grs of W231 with a oal of 1.250 using the Lee FCD and they all miked out the same.

 

[DickM]

I've also run a lot of Unique through my powder measure with the pistol rotor and haven't experienced any trouble, though now I'll consider myself forewarned and take a bit more time to look into the cases before bullet seating - something I'd been doing anyway, but was a bit casual about.

 

[zxcvbob]

I know y'all have probably answered this already but I want to make sure that I understand. Is the the large rotor that comes with the powder measure adequate for measuring kind-of-small charges of flake powder, like 4.0 grains of Unique for instance? Or is the pistol rotor required for any kind of accuracy at the low end?

Thanks,
Bob

 

[bugs100]

I had a hard time with the rifle rotor metering any thing below 7grs. With the pistol rotor and the insert that comes with it I've metered power down to 3.1grs with no problem.

Unique has a reputation of being harder to meter than some other powders, but I haven't had any problems with it using the pistol rotor in the Hornady measure.

 

[Master Blaster]

I have loaded about 3000 rounds of .45 acp on my LNL since December when I set it up. I Initially ordered the pistol rotor and insert. I ended up using the rifle rotor with the micrometer rifle insert . When I was using the pistol rotor with trailboss, and with unique I noticed variations of up to 60% of the volume from one round to the next I weighed one charge at 5.0 gr and the next at 2.8 gr., I tried titegroup and the problem disappeared, but I like Trailboss for cast bullets, and unique for jacketed.
So I returned the pistol rotor to midway.

I have been using the rifle rotor with the micrometer insert for the last few months, it will meter as little as 3.5 grains of trailboss reliably and within .10 grains if the measure is kept right around 3/4 full.

Thats my experience YMMV.

By the way I agree about the through powder expanders not working. I couldnt get the .45 acp expander to provide suffiicient belling for cast bullets. My current set up is as follows: size decap in 1, Belling die in 2, powder drop in 3, seat in 4, crimp in 5. I decided to use the Hornady dies so no problems with the ejection wire.

Other folks have had problems with the pistol rotor and through expanders as well.

 

[spencerhut]

I've got an FCD for every pistol round I load. It is a great use of the L-N-L bushing in a single stage. I only use the FCD when a round will NOT pass the case gauge, the FCD fixes ~ half of these so they will pass the gauge. Most of these rounds are going to be X'ed, used for practice only and left at the range when fired.

I use to seat and crimp all my revolver rounds at the same time but found it easier to just buy a Lee FCD for each one.

You might *think* it's easier, but, now that you've used the FCD for a while try taking the FCD out of the press for a few rounds. The press runs smoother eh? Now if you set your seating die to seat and crimp (yes, it can be a little time consuming the first few times you do it) I think you'll find the press still runs smooth and your rounds will still pass the case gauge. You'll also free up a station for a Lock Out die. You will get the occasional round that will not gauge and can use the FCD on the single stage as above. I find the rounds that fail the gauge are usually fired from a Glock or are someones Major load. The Glock fired rounds are easy to spot visually by the primer strike. The cases from Major loads are impossible to see, but you feel them in the press when you size them, you'll feel the Glock rounds too. I've had really good luck with using an EGW undersized die to take care of both problems most of them time.

 

[Dave B]

Get the pistol rotor, you willbe happier.

 

[bugs100]

There's a couple reasons why it's easier for me to use a Lee FCD. I mostly shoot semi's. Which demands tapered rounds instead of crimped rounds.

I also switch a lot from 38 to 357 and using the Lee FCD is just a faster way for me to use the same dies. Also I reload some bottle neck revolver rounds which are real hard to crimp.

Also switching between berry's and cast is a pain, instead of having to adjust the crimp for each one the Lee FCD eliminates that step.

Loading Berry's you have to be carefull that you don't over crimp and break the plating. If you break the plating on the berry's you can have a serious problem when you shoot them.

I agree that it's the lazy man's way to get a perfect round every time and the press runs smoother with out it. I usally clean each of my dies when I take them out and spray them with Hornady one shot, which helps a lot to smooth the stroke.

I can set and adjust a die with no problem and usally get the crimp I want on the first try. But the Berry's are a problem for my old eyes to check and it's hard to see if the crimp is to harsh.

 

[zxcvbob]

I also switch a lot from 38 to 357 and using the Lee FCD is just a faster way for me to use the same dies... Also switching between berry's and cast is a pain, instead of having to adjust the crimp for each one the Lee FCD eliminates that step.
Loading Berry's you have to be carefull that you don't over crimp and break the plating. If you break the plating on the berry's you can have a serious problem when you shoot them.

Try using a 9mm crimp die when loading .38SPL and .357MAG with Berry's bullets. (this is in general; I dunno how it might apply with the LNL AP press) The 9mm die will give a tight taper crimp on .38 and .357 cartridges that will not cut through the plating.

Bob

 

[zxcvbob]

My LnL AP got here Friday. I've got it set up on the bench, waiting for the shell plates to get here. (they are scheduled to be delivered tomorrow) I may put the new Hornady powder measure on my old CH press tonight and try it out.

 

[Steve Koski]

ZXC: You've got a CH? My first SS press was a CH! That thing was STOUT.

 

[zxcvbob]

Yes, an old 3-station "H" press. Also both the CH pushbutton powder measure and 4 or 5 powder bushings, and their micrometer powder measure with just the pistol rotor. I got a "package deal" off eBay when i was just starting to learn reloading. I didn't trust myself with a progressive press until I knew all the steps.

I intend to keep using it for load development and for rifle cartridges -- and 9mm for a while. (9mm is supposed to be problematic on the LNLAP, plus I need to save up for a while before I buy any more shell plates.)

 

[Bowfishrp]

I got my LNL AP on Friday too but made sure some shellplates were in the package. Loaded about 100 rounds of 223 and yes that ejector wire occasionally hangs on 223 but it was no problem with 45 or 308. Dont have a shellplate for 9mm yet but if 223 was hanging on every 5th case then I suspect the 9mm will too.

At any rate I can say ditto on the instructions problem. The part names with the numbers next to them did not always match the numbers from the parts list or illustrations. Also DO NOT try to use the powder measure without taking it apart. I thought I could skimp and swab it out but could never get a consistent drop. Finally took it apart and there was tons of anti-rust oil in it. Little carb cleaner then a good bath in warm water with Dawn (the soap not the girl )took care of that nicely.

I have a Horandy single stage press with the LnL bushing and if there is one complaint I have about the AP, it is that the single stage and the AP are NOT the same height so you cannot leave your die in their bushings and use them between both presses. Oh well, once I get all my bushings I will be using this press for everything...even if you are just pressing bullets, it is faster than a single stage.

This is already speeding up my reloading times tremendously and I am still not using all the steps at once.