Load Data for .38 Special

[LittleColt]

I'm wanting to put together some target loads using 125 grain JHPs and some Titegroup that I have on hand for a .38 special case. Does anyone have good load data or experience with these? I've checked my books and looked around on the forums and I'm seeing a wide range of powder weights.

 

[gahunter12]

I have never loaded 125gr in 38spl. I load 158gr SWC over 3.6gr of W231. It's a very low recoil and accurate load for my wife's revolver. Never tried Tightgroup.

 

[Josh45]

I know your asking for TightGroup but for me it's a tad snappy.
I used 125 Gr Speer TMJ FP with W-231. My light practice load was at 4.1 Gr.
For a little more kick, I used 4.5 Gr of W-231 and I do pretty nicely for myself at about 7 yards. Never went out further to try it out.

If you still want to use TightGroup, I suggest you start at the low end and work your way up to where you feel good with your load and get satisfactory results. Of course check for pressure as you go. Most make 5-10 test rounds before making a batch and calling them " my-go-to-load".

 

[rcmodel]

Hodgdon sells Titegroup powder.
So, the Hodgdon website has the load data for it.

http://www.hodgdon.com/basic-manual-inquiry.html

rc

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Take a look at the Hodgdon load data site. The charge weight data for Titegroup has a narrow charge weight range with a 125gr jacketed bullet.

 

[gamestalker]

My recomendation would be to go with a slower bruing powder, but that's my approach with all my reloading endeavors. I like powders that don't suddenly produce pressure spikes created by .2 gr. increments or powders that have very shallow load ranges. In this respect, Titegroup or W-231 would not be my choices for powder. Universal would probably be about as fast burning as I would go for the .38 spcl., but still not one that I would use unless no other options existed.


HS6 has a load range of 1.3 grains from minimum to +P levels, .7 grains of that is standard load range. On the other hand, Titegroup only has a total load range of .7 grains from minimum to +P, and only .3 grains is all it offers within the standard load range. That sure doesn't offer much to work with, and especially if using a volmetric powder measure rather than a scale. I honestly don't think it is possible to KB a good quality revolver, or even rupture a case for that matter using HS6 or Longshot.

Longshot and HS6 are the powders I use for 9mm, 38 spcl. and .40 cal.. Besides having a very forgiving burn rate and room to work with, they also produce very consistent velocities, and both can be loaded to high performance with very little concern with regard to unpredictably high, or spikey pressures. And FYI, it is impossible to accidentally double charge any of the cartridges I load using those two powders.

GS

 

[ArchAngelCD]

My recomendation would be to go with a slower bruing powder, but that's my approach with all my reloading endeavors. I like powders that don't suddenly produce pressure spikes created by .2 gr. increments or powders that have very shallow load ranges. In this respect, Titegroup or W-231 would not be my choices for powder. Universal would probably be about as fast burning as I would go for the .38 spcl., but still not one that I would use unless no other options existed.

GS

I can not agree at all. The .38 Special is a low pressure load and light loads are very low pressure. You really can't get good results with a slow burning powder at lower pressures. They work better at the top of the pressure curve.

Faster powder work very well in low pressure loads and W231 works extremely well in the .38 Special and .45 Auto.

 

[LittleColt]

Many Thanks!

Thank you to everyone for their helpful and thoughtful responses. I've read many things about Titegroup, including that it has a narrow range and high pressure spikes. Some folks love it, some hate it. The only consensus I can find about it is that it is position insensitive, which probably isn't much of a factor in what I'm doing. I had checked out the Hodgdon site before which was very helpful. I saw powder weights for lead and XTP, but nothing specific about JHP in a 125 grain. I checked some of the forums and saw that some folks were loading 5 grn and above for 125 JHP, which seemed unwise and downright dangerous for a .38s. Hodgdon has a starting load of 3.2 and a not-to-exceed load of 3.8. Here is what I've done and am planning to do. If any of this seems imprudent, please tell me!!! I've loaded 12 rounds at 3.2 grain. I carefully weighed out a "control" charge and visually checked each charged case (by volume) before I seated the bullet. I am planning to use my .357 GP-100 to test these. I thought this was the safest revolver to use since it is built for a .357m round. Again, looking at the Hodgdon data, a 125grn lead bullet in a .357m lists from 4.0 to 5.4 and a 125grn XTP at 6.8 to 7.5. Based on this, I'm thinking that testing .38s with the .357 GP-100 would give me a decent safety factor. This is the first time that I have even considered any deviation from a published load, so I want to go about this in a safe manner. Again, if this is a bad plan, I will not hesitate to get out the bullet puller and start over.

 

[Sport45]

The XTP is a JHP. I'd start at 4.3gr and leave it at that if the first case dropped out of my .38's chamber cleanly.

Testing in a .357 won't let you know if you are getting above the pressure limit of a .38 special.

 

[zxcvbob]

I'm curious why you're using 125 grain JHP's for a .38 target load? They are more expensive than lead bullets, and your gun sights are probably regulated for heavier bullets -- 148 to 158 grains.

Get some 148 grain wadcutters or 158 grain SWC or 158 grain RNFP lead bullets and I think you'll be happier.

 

[kingmt]

I don't understand your question. You say Hodgdon list 3.2 as the starting load & this is what you loaded. Are you asking if that load is safe or are you asking about the 5gn or 357 data in a 38 case?

 

[LittleColt]

Kingmt - I was mainly asking because I couldn't find published, trustworthy data for the 125 grain JHP. The stuff about the .357 (data, gun, etc.) was asking about the safety factor. Sorry for the confusion. I've only been reloading for a few months and still learning the basics. I don't want to make stupid mistakes that might hurt me or some else. That said, I enjoy it very much, plan on reloading for a long time, and want to learn as much as I can.

ZXCVbob - The JHPs and Titegroup were birthday gifts from a reloading buddy. I agree that the JHP is kinda expensive to be sending downrange, but it is what is on hand at the moment. I guess it's silly, but since I've been reloading, it hurts my feelings to pay for store-bought ammo.

Sport 45 - Good point!...I wasn't thinking about it from that standpoint. The .357 as a test revolver is safer, but it doesn't tell me much about the round itself.

Great input everyone - Many Thanks!

 

[gamestalker]

ArchAngelCD.

What results are you referring to? Accuracy, velocity, or is it just simply economics, what? My experience, though only a 30 year span of loading with slow powders, has been exceptional in every aspect of performance, accuracy, velocity and a safety margin against squibs or over charges. With much broader load ranges to work with when fine tuning a load, one at least has a span of safe operating options to work with, beyond the .3 gr. load range that Titegroup offers. If one should decide to load any where within the load range for Titgroup 38 spcl any where withn the .3 gr. load range, all it takes is a .1 gr. deviation and your either at, or over max, or at, or below the minimum.

All it takes is one small deviation attributed to a powder measure metering issue, and your either over the top, or getting squibs with powders like Titegroup. In fact, I'm surprised Titegroup even has a place in the books for jacketed 38 spcl., which barely exists @ .3 grains. So I ask again, what better results are you specifically referring to?

And the OP is loading with jacketed bullets, not lead!

GS

 

[kingmt]

I have never used it & I haven't read the data except what you posted. If Hodgdon says the start load is 3.2 it probably won't blow your hand off. I have read so many threads that start "I KB may favorite gun today using my pet load x.xgn Tight Group." then they start bleaming the gun or something like that. My bet is it is a easy powder to make a mistake with. If your working with max loads on a warm day then go out on a hot one & grab the box off the dash you may find need to change your max load, underwear, & insurance carrier.

 

[Josh45]

If the start load is 3.2 Gr for a JHP, You should start there making about 10 test loads and trying them out to see how you like it. Remember TO MAKE SURE THAT IS FOR THE JHP AND NOT LEAD!!

To low a charge can get you a stuck bullet.
To much will damage your gun or you! Stay with the published data and you will be O.K
Only go to maximum after you have tried the lower end charges and check your pressure readings as you go.

 

[LittleColt]

I will probably pass on the Titegroup....

After all the good input that I've received, I agree that Titegroup may be a bit too much powder for someone at my experience level. I will probably shoot the few that I've loaded in my .357 this afternoon and put the rest of the TG on the shelf until I have more expertise. I've had W231 and Power Pistol recommended to me, but heard that W231 has many of the same potential negative traits for a newbie as TG. Is there a good, reasonably-forgiving powder that the more experienced THR members might suggest? I'm loading 9mm, .38special, and .357 magnum. Safety trumps cost. Again, thanks for all the good advice and helping me play safe. THR Rocks!

 

[1KPerDay]

Kingmt - I was mainly asking because I couldn't find published, trustworthy data for the 125 grain JHP.

This is from Hodgdon's site... and if you don't consider the people who made your powder trustworthy, I don't know what to tell you. :

125 GR. HDY XTP Hodgdon Titegroup .357" 1.455" 4.3 953 12,800 CUP 4.6 1010 15,600 CUP

As has been noted, the XTP is a JHP bullet.

I'm glad you're being cautious rather than devil-may-care. But you're being a little paranoid, IMO.

http://www.hodgdon.com/

 

[LittleColt]

1KPerDay - You are probably right about being overly-cautious...but I don't want the nickname "Lefty" or "One Eye" either....(LOL!)

 

[zxcvbob]

Is there a good, reasonably-forgiving powder that the more experienced THR members might suggest? I'm loading 9mm, .38special, and .357 magnum. Safety trumps cost.

Unique and Herco are good ones to start with if your powder measure can handle medium-large-flake powders. Bullseye (surprise!) is also quite forgiving, and it's bulkier than Titegroup.

 

[kingmt]

Don't let me scare you off. i was just giveing you something to consider. TG may be the best thing ever in 38 with 125gn bullets. I would use thoses in a 9mm & go buy a better bullet for a 38 myself.

 

[Josh45]

Unique is a bulkier powder and is quite noticeable in smaller cases. It can do well for you in 38 Spcl. I prefer it for cast bullets but it works in Jacketed as well. Herco ain't a bad powder either. I tried it in 9mm and didn't like the results so I stopped using it in 9mm.

W-231 and Bullseye are easy to get double charges if you do not pay attention because you require so little in that case to get it going. Just pay attention and weigh all your charges. Most powder measures ( I think ) handle these powders well. They have for me in the LPPM. Unique doesn't work to well in the LPPM because it is bulky.

 

[Steve C]

Here is the data from Hodgdon for both .38 spl standard and +P loads. Note the 7.7" test barrel length so you can expect about 200 fps +/- 50 fps for shorter barrels from 2 to 4 inches. If you want to get a similar load to factory defense ammo then select the 5.0gr +P load. For shooting paper or small varmints then a standard pressure load could be your choice.

If you want to load defense loads with the best velocity then Unique is probably one of the best. 6.0grs of Unique behind a 125gr JHP will send the bullet out the muzzle at over 1,050 fps which i have chrono'd from a few different 4" revolvers.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

ArchAngelCD.

What results are you referring to? Accuracy, velocity, or is it just simply economics, what? My experience, though only a 30 year span of loading with slow powders, has been exceptional in every aspect of performance, accuracy, velocity and a safety margin against squibs or over charges. With much broader load ranges to work with when fine tuning a load, one at least has a span of safe operating options to work with, beyond the .3 gr. load range that Titegroup offers. If one should decide to load any where within the load range for Titgroup 38 spcl any where withn the .3 gr. load range, all it takes is a .1 gr. deviation and your either at, or over max, or at, or below the minimum.

All it takes is one small deviation attributed to a powder measure metering issue, and your either over the top, or getting squibs with powders like Titegroup. In fact, I'm surprised Titegroup even has a place in the books for jacketed 38 spcl., which barely exists @ .3 grains. So I ask again, what better results are you specifically referring to?

And the OP is loading with jacketed bullets, not lead!

GS

You're talking specifically about Titegroup and then expanding your opinion to all faster powders. W231/HP-38 will not spike pressures with slight charge changes and it's very hard to generate a squib load when using published load data.

When I say better results I mean complete powder burn, clean powder burn, velocities which are consistent and accurate loads. All those are true when using W231 in the .38 Special and .45 Auto.

You 30 years of loading tell you what you want to see while my time reloading tells me something else. I find slow powders inappropriate for loading low pressure low velocity .38 Special loads while you do not.

Since this is not a contest I'm done here since I already gave the OP my advice which is the reason why I answered this thread.

 

[gamestalker]

Hey, I'm sorry about that ArchAngelCD, and I hope you don't hold it against me. I have to watch myself at times because I tend to get very opinionated and sometimes end up offending others. I had insomnia last night and didn't get any sleep at all, and then decided to get on line, bad idea.

In reality, all published powders are all safe and effective. And what may float my boat, may not be anothers desired choice, which is the beauty of reloading in that we can build what we like to shoot.

I just prefer working with slow burners because they give me a little bit more elbow room.

GS

 

[4895]

I load 38 special lead ammo with Winchester 231 almost exclusively. I just picked up 3 lbs. of bullseye for $15.99 each at a LGS sale for my next batch.

I think that lead 38's just don't get much easier than with 231 or bullseye.

If all I had was a lb. of titegroup and wanted to load some 38 special, I would use it. I would probably settle on something in the middle unless accuracy suffered. I don't need to 'push' target ammo as I like low recoil rounds for trigger control.

I don't know the loading method, however, everyone should stay focused while working with ANY powder. Titegroup is a "touchy" powder, and accidents are more prone with a small window of error. If the basic steps of reloading are applied then everything will be fine.

I wouldn't load 125gr. JHP for 38 spl. unless that's all I had. I like 158gr SWC or LRNFP over a low charge of 3.5gr 231 or 3.3 grains of bullseye. For me, 125 grain pills shoot too high.

Personally, I would save them for .357 mag and a stout load of H110. That'll put a smile on your face. As for titegroup, I would feel 100% confident that I could load it safely, as I have done in the past (44 mag 240g SWC) with very little problem. It meters excellent and saves a bit of $$ that is better spent elsewhere. If I were you, I would buy some Berry's 158 grain plated bullets and shoot those in 38 before using the spendy JHP. YMMV.