Shinbone
Member
Hello, all. I'm looking at buying a Pietta 1858 44 Cal new army model (originally from Cabelas) that is used and has no documentation with it. Is there any load data or original manuals available for it anyplace?
Thanks.
Thanks.
Load data for BP pistol?
- Thread starter Shinbone
- Start date
- Status
BCRider
Member
I ran my Uberti NA clones this past weekend with a 30 grain load and it had a recoil very much like a regular to slightly stout .38Spl but definetly not up to +P level. Like you I did not get documentation with mine but in looking around I saw numbers from the mid 20's to low-mid 30's and went with the 30 grains. Also I was shooting without any wad behind the ball and 30 was the LEAST I could use and still ensure proper powder compaction. And if you've been reading around you'll know that the LAST thing you want is an airspace and loose powder. If you don't want to go with the 30 grains right off the bat then load lighter but put a wad or a filler of cornmeal or Cream Of Wheat over it to bring up the level so you can properly compact the powder. Some of this may vary since I've got the Uberti and this is a Pietta but my powder loading experience will be consistent.
Mike OTDP
Member
Try 15-25 grains of 3Fg powder. Use Cream of Wheat filler until you have about 3/8 inch remaining. Put a .454 RB on top. Ram home, put a dab of grease on top.
Adjust the powder charge to suit. That should take care of things.
Adjust the powder charge to suit. That should take care of things.
BHP FAN
Member
Mike's load would work,[and I've used it for years] but lately I've become a big fan of wonder wads.28 gr.[That's what the spout has written on it,but I pour it into a 30 gr. measure with a built in funnel] 3f Goex,wonder wad,.454 Hornady or home cast.this puts the ball out a little closer to the end of the cylinder,reducing the amount the bullet has to jump before it encounters rifling.
Shinbone
Member
Thanks. I'll try it if I get the nerve up to spend the money. It's $410 and that includes a 45LC Taylor conversion cylinder. Seems like a good price to me. Not new, but like new.
BHP FAN
Member
It's a pretty good price considering the last time I looked, the R&D cylinder all by itself cost $254.00 from Taylors.
Ginormous
Member
BHP Fan is right, that's a pretty sweet deal.
Shinbone, should you decide to pass on the purchase of this pistol combo, would you kindly forward the seller's contact information to me via PM?
Thanks.
Shinbone, should you decide to pass on the purchase of this pistol combo, would you kindly forward the seller's contact information to me via PM?
Thanks.
BCRider
Member
I choked at the price until I saw the conversion kit included. That's not a bad price at all. Having said this pricing used to be very regional and now it is still very national while not being international quite yet.
But if my own experience is anything to go by once you shoot black powder, despite the extra loading efforts, you won't be using that conversion kit very often. I'm not in any hurry to ditch my modern cartridge S&W's any time soon but I can't see wanting to put a conversion onto my BP revolvers ever.
But if my own experience is anything to go by once you shoot black powder, despite the extra loading efforts, you won't be using that conversion kit very often. I'm not in any hurry to ditch my modern cartridge S&W's any time soon but I can't see wanting to put a conversion onto my BP revolvers ever.
BCRider
Member
Er... In reading the 15 to 25 grain load above and not seeing any other justification for my 30 grain load I'm wondering if I'm pushing the limits on my Ubertis. I can't belive this is the case since the recoil is so mild. But perhaps the way the BP builds pressure is lulling me into a comfort level I should not be feeling? Thoughts on this? Anyone with a manual since Uberti doesn't see fit to provide any sort of owner's manual download?
BHP FAN
Member
Steel frame? 30 gr. should be no problemo. I wouldn't go much [if any] over that,though.I had a pair of Pietta NMA Remingtons, and that was my standard load for years.I still shoot them with their present owner,and they've ''smoothed'',but not loosened.
Ginormous
Member
Actually, I would like to have a reasonably historically accurate single action pistol capable of shooting 45 LC blanks for CMSA competition without spending a fortune. Or rather, my daughter would. 
We have the horse angle covered several times over, but until she took an interest in my BP guns, she had never expressed an interest in competing in these events. I bought 2 Cabela's 1858's a couple of weeks ago, and intend to add the Kirst gated 45 LC cylinder to them both for her use. BUT . . . hell, if I can score a pistol and cylinder for low money, I'll keep the Bobbsey twins for my personal use, and let her shoot it up with the long barreled Remington and R&D conversion from a pommel or cantle mounted holster. She digs the longer barreled pistols anyway. So it's win / win for me!
We have the horse angle covered several times over, but until she took an interest in my BP guns, she had never expressed an interest in competing in these events. I bought 2 Cabela's 1858's a couple of weeks ago, and intend to add the Kirst gated 45 LC cylinder to them both for her use. BUT . . . hell, if I can score a pistol and cylinder for low money, I'll keep the Bobbsey twins for my personal use, and let her shoot it up with the long barreled Remington and R&D conversion from a pommel or cantle mounted holster. She digs the longer barreled pistols anyway. So it's win / win for me!
BHP FAN
Member
She has excellent taste..36, or .44? Is a reload required,or can she get away with 3-5 shots?
Ginormous
Member
The CMSA supplies the blank ammo for the competitions to keep things on an even keel, allegedly, so it has be able to shoot single action only 45 LC. No model 25's allowed. Different events will be shooting at differing amounts of balloons or targets. As I understand it, it's either 5 or 10 targets, requiring either a single pistol for the first and a dual pistol setup for the second type of events.
That's the limit of what I know at this point. And she is putting the screws to me pretty hard right now to get her rigged up and ready to go. Daughters are rough. Sheesh.
Different events will be shooting at differing amounts of balloons or targets. As I understand it, it's either 5 or 10 targets, requiring either a single pistol for the first and a dual pistol setup for the second type of events.That's the limit of what I know at this point. And she is putting the screws to me pretty hard right now to get her rigged up and ready to go. Daughters are rough. Sheesh.
BCRider
Member
Thanks BHP, that helps. Truth be known by the time I shake the load down to get the extra off the stem of my dipper measure it's likely more like 29 grains so there's a touch of reserve. And being the 1858 it's all steel where it counts.
Frankly I'd be highly dissapointed if the kick from this load was an issue. As I said it kicks like a slightly stout .38Spl so it's not like I'm trusting the frame to soak up a Magnum kick and the frame seems to be modern frame style strong.
One thing I think I'll check pretty soon is the barrel to cylinder chamber alignment. If that is out I can see generating needless and harmful stress on the cylinder stop and hand over time. On one of the guns I noticed a significant burr on the hand that I filed off using a fine jeweler's file. The lockup is still tight as can be but that gun is now suspect for barrel to chamber alignment on one or more chambers until I can clear it of possible issues.
Frankly I'd be highly dissapointed if the kick from this load was an issue. As I said it kicks like a slightly stout .38Spl so it's not like I'm trusting the frame to soak up a Magnum kick and the frame seems to be modern frame style strong.
One thing I think I'll check pretty soon is the barrel to cylinder chamber alignment. If that is out I can see generating needless and harmful stress on the cylinder stop and hand over time. On one of the guns I noticed a significant burr on the hand that I filed off using a fine jeweler's file. The lockup is still tight as can be but that gun is now suspect for barrel to chamber alignment on one or more chambers until I can clear it of possible issues.
BCRider
Member
Ginormous, so those folks shooting baloons from horseback are shooting blanks? After seeing the Youtube vids of that stuff I figured wax bullets. Certainly not proper lead given the venue! ! !
That's still some pretty big distances for blanks to burst baloons though!
That's still some pretty big distances for blanks to burst baloons though!
BHP FAN
Member
Ginormous,have you seen River JunctionTrade Companys ''percussion'' .45 blank [or live ammo] cylinder. Altough it's strong enough to handle live ammo,it's meant for re-enactors,in that it looks like a percussion cylinder...
Designed with historical Reenactor in mind This Drop In Konverter when installed in the .44 cal 58 Remington looks like a percussion cylinder. Allowing the battle field Reenactor or Mounted shooter to fire the safer and more convenient .45 cal blanks (as well as live rounds) while maintaining the look of a revolver commonly used during the 1860s
.45 KIRST * CIVIL WAR * CARTRIDGE KONVERTER
FOR THE .44 cal 1858 REMINGTON Percussion Revolver
.45 Kirst * Civil War * Cartridge Konverter for a: Uberti Pietta
.45 Long Colt - Blued Finish - $264.95 .45 Long Colt - Nickle Finish - $344.95 .45 ACP - Blued Finish - $264.95 .45 ACP - Nickle Finish - $344.95
Designed with historical Reenactor in mind This Drop In Konverter when installed in the .44 cal 58 Remington looks like a percussion cylinder. Allowing the battle field Reenactor or Mounted shooter to fire the safer and more convenient .45 cal blanks (as well as live rounds) while maintaining the look of a revolver commonly used during the 1860s
.45 KIRST * CIVIL WAR * CARTRIDGE KONVERTER
FOR THE .44 cal 1858 REMINGTON Percussion Revolver
.45 Kirst * Civil War * Cartridge Konverter for a: Uberti Pietta
.45 Long Colt - Blued Finish - $264.95 .45 Long Colt - Nickle Finish - $344.95 .45 ACP - Blued Finish - $264.95 .45 ACP - Nickle Finish - $344.95
Last edited:
BHP FAN
Member
BCRider, an easy quick check is to pull out the nipples and simply look down the barrel whilst looking at a soft light source....you don't want too bright,because what you're looking for is cylinder/chamber/barrel alignment,which is hard to do when blinded.An ''Outers'' fiber optic batteryless bore light works great.
arcticap
Member
Tradtions has owner's manuals available at the bottom of the following page in the box that says "Select you firearm". Their revolvers are all Piettas.
http://www.traditionsfirearms.com/ownersManuals.asp
For instance here's the manual for the steel 1858 Remington. Some models do share the same manual:
http://www.traditionsfirearms.com/eshop/products/CAP BALL REVOLVER INFO 2.pdf
Do I win a prize?
http://www.traditionsfirearms.com/ownersManuals.asp
For instance here's the manual for the steel 1858 Remington. Some models do share the same manual:
http://www.traditionsfirearms.com/eshop/products/CAP BALL REVOLVER INFO 2.pdf
Do I win a prize?
BCRider
Member
Thanks, I need to make up a nipple wrench anyway so that'll be a good test of it. Yeah, I could buy one but where's the fun in that? Besides, I got me all this metal working equipment that need to pay its way. And last time I needed a specialty tool I made one in less time than the drive to buy one. Let alone the cost.
Besides, I got me all this metal working equipment that need to pay its way. And last time I needed a specialty tool I made one in less time than the drive to buy one. Let alone the cost.
arcticap
Member
Ginormous
Member
Surprises me too that a blank round can burst a balloon at up to 20 feet. For fun and laughs, I think I'll set up some targets this weekend and see just how far my cap and ball pistols can burst balloons.
Anyone know how to safely load the equivalent of a 45 LC blank in a cap and ball pistol? Obviously, chain fire is a real issue if it's not done right, since there is no ball over the BP load.
How do the re-enactors do it? I assume grits, cream of wheat, or some other similar product compressed over the powder would work, but I am not certain at all.
Ginormous
Member
BHP Fan, those are cool. Even better, the over all appearance of the gun remains the same as well, which I like.
Why oh why are there so many choices?
Hellwithit, I'll just get 2 of each! Even 2 are still less than the cost of a Vaquero anyway.
Why oh why are there so many choices?
Hellwithit, I'll just get 2 of each! Even 2 are still less than the cost of a Vaquero anyway.
BCRider
Member
Ginormous, you'd need some pretty firm wadding to hold the powder packed with the proper pressure. And by the time you have that the wadding itself would be an effective danger to baloons out to quite a range so I'm not sure this would be a fair test.
Better would be to buy some Ramset blank cartridges and put them into a .22 revolver and try that.
Speaking of Ramset I'd almost forgetten about them. If anyone needed an example of the power of a .22 it is the fact that the power in a reduced load .22 short blank has the power to drive a 1/8 diameter hardened nail up to an inch into concrete. And full power blank shorts have enough to drive a heavier 5/32 nail up to 2 inches into the same concrete. Now THERE'S an eye opener! ! ! !
Better would be to buy some Ramset blank cartridges and put them into a .22 revolver and try that.
Speaking of Ramset I'd almost forgetten about them. If anyone needed an example of the power of a .22 it is the fact that the power in a reduced load .22 short blank has the power to drive a 1/8 diameter hardened nail up to an inch into concrete. And full power blank shorts have enough to drive a heavier 5/32 nail up to 2 inches into the same concrete. Now THERE'S an eye opener! ! ! !
- Status
