Historically correct 1858 Sheriff's model question

[Pocket]

My first BP was the infomous 1851 44 Navy replica that never waa.

I am looking at the 1858 Sheriff's model 44 with the 5 1/2" barrel. I am feel this may also be a fantasy replica.

Please tell me that the 1858 44 Cal Sheriff's model with the 5 1/2 barrel from Cabelas is a real repro.

Thanks

 

[Blackpowdershooter44]

The Sheriffs model 1858 Remington is in the correct caliber, but not period correct barrel length unfortunately. They were produced with the 8" barrel originally. Many full length barrels were most likely cut down to shorter lengths aftermarket by people back then though to make them easier to carry.

 

[Pocket]

That explains why I can't find anything on the 5 1/2 " barrel model.

I am gonna pass on that sale.

Thank you

 

[Armored farmer]

The '58 sheriff's model is a joy to shoot and carry, perhaps my favorite revolver....at least nearly so.
However, the joy ends when it comes time to reload. The short rammer makes it a chore. A loading stand helps, a "cheater" does too. Not too handy in the field though.
Sometimes you cant improve on the original design.

 

[Tommygunn]

Why not think of it as one that was cut down by a gunsmith in Dodge City or someplace? As has been stated, some were cut down.

IMHO, it's part of "the experience" to know what was real and not with regards to bp. I have a 5.5 inch Remmie like in the photo above. I also have one with checkered grips, color case hardened frame, and a fully fluted cylinder. Now THAT is really a total fantasy-land gun, but I like it a lot. The flutes are a cool addition and the checker ing makes it grip well.
Were I to use it in some western video production I could make up some interesting back story to justify it's existance.
I have watched A LOT of old cowboy movies and TV westerns over time....have many of 'em on DVD. Some recent productions have gotten fairly good historically (though the stories may be fictional) but westerns from the 1950s-1970s were pretty well just imagination. There was no Paladin, no Lone Ranger, no actual Cartwrights. A character portrayed by actor Rory Calhoun in THE TEXAN was a real person, but Calhoun's version was a hero, the real one was a murderous scoundrel. Errol Flynn portrayed General Custer in THEY DIED WITH THEIR BOOTS ON, which was an interesting movie, but historic bunk.
There's no reason to disdain these fantasy guns if you like them. You don't have to .... I mean, it's your choice.
But if you like a little fun in life....why not?

 

[arcticap]

That explains why I can't find anything on the 5 1/2 " barrel model.

I am gonna pass on that sale.

Thank you

According to a production chart on Wikipedia, there were many Remingtons made with different barrel lengths but mostly in .36 percussion
which were the New Model Police (medium frame) and the New Model Single Action Belt Revolver (large frame):--->>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remington_Model_1858#Model_series

 

[Cowhide Cliff]

On the new model Army 44 which is what the Pietta 1858 mostly resembles I would stick with the 8 inch barrel if you want to stay close with authenticity. That said the 8 inch barrel ones are great fun and I've found them very accurate.

 

[Eyrie G. Dogg]

Get one, Pocket. You can thank us later for the good advice.

They may not have come off the Ilion production line but they ain’t no fantasy. If you don’t already have an eight inch then you best be getting one. Then get the 5.5” mod. Either order works great.

 

[Pocket]

It is tempting to spend my stash money.

Then I can always say ,, " Oh I have had that for a while now:" she won't know the difference.

 

[mec]

Paraphrasing St. Tom Aquinas- If it did not exist, it would have to be invented.
Apparently it Was invented by end-users or at least such a thing is feasible. It seems that a lot of original percussion and cartridge revolvers did get that treatment

 

[mec]

[delete) duplicate

 

[1KPerDay]

If your main concern is total historical accuracy then you can't get any of the modern reproductions anyway.

 

[mec]

It is tempting to spend my stash money.

Then I can always say ,, " Oh I have had that for a while now:" she won't know the difference.

Progressive revalation. a friend developed
1. First - new gun behind a wall panel
2. Then moved to back of gun safe
3 then rotated to full view were, eventually the Storm and Strife sees it and goes, " WHEN DID YOU GET THAT?!?!?!"
4. Oh, that's been here a long time. don't really remember.

 

[Steel Hayes]

If we’re talking Remington revolver history,
this will help clear things up.

http://www.civilwarhandgun.com/remington.htm

https://www.remingtonsociety.org/2598-2/

 

[rodwha]

If we’re talking Remington revolver history,
this will help clear things up.

http://www.civilwarhandgun.com/remington.htm

https://www.remingtonsociety.org/2598-2/

Seems the data in the first link goes against nearly everything those on the traditional forum, many of whom are amateur historians of some type, have to say.

 

[Cowhide Cliff]

Seems the data in the first link goes against nearly everything those on the traditional forum, many of whom are amateur historians of some type, have to say.

Well I'm certainly no expert but know for fact there is a bunch of bull malarkey in that first link.

Just a couple or three, first there is no evidence I've ever heard or seen of extra cylinders being shipped with or for the Remingtons and in those days of hand fitting they would have to be fitted and tuned to certain revolvers. Reliability is hit and miss enough even on todays CNC'd parts. I think Clint Eastwood might have been the first on that with his extra conversion cylinders. Plus a loaded and capped cylinder outside the gun is a dangerous bomb. Anyone that did try it probably shot himself or his pards.

Second, you can sit the hammer between cylinders on a Colt if you really wish and have read plenty of times from sources that it was done on the Colts as well.

Third, you don't have to remove the screw or need a hammer to remove the wedge on a properly fitted Colt. The screw actually retains the wedge so it doesn't fall out and get lost and also read some reprint info that the screw on early Colts was used to adjust/limit the wedge depth.

When I read something like that I give no credit to any other information in an article.

 

[rodwha]

Precisely. I quit reading it fairly quickly.

Actually it’s been shown that without a barrel a loaded cylinder that’s ignited doesn’t have much energy. I believe it was a 30 grn load of 3F Goex with a ball and it was shown to only produce 7 ft/lbs of energy, essentially not enough to break the skin, but might well hurt. All bets might be off if an eye was struck I suppose.

I use more energetic powders so maybe the same load might produce 10-15 ft/lbs? Not really sure how bad that could be but it doesn’t sound very threatening. Regardless if much prefer to be at 100% before a battle then!

 

[Steel Hayes]

Precisely. I quit reading it fairly quickly

That wasn’t the link I was looking for(just a throw in for info) and I have yet to find where spare cylinders were issued.
OP had asked about variants of the new model Army barrel lengths, which were a standard 8” on the NMA and 7.5” on the NMN.
No other barrel length was produced.

 

[Tommygunn]

I think the spare cylinder thing was something that individual shooters might have provided for themselves. I've read that military units usually "reloaded" by having 2nd and 3rd ++ guns ---especially guerilla or irregular units.

 

[Steel Hayes]

I’ve also seen photos(tin type) of troops that were issued extra cylinder pouches, but the cylinders may have been private purchases.

 

[Cowhide Cliff]

I think the spare cylinder thing was something that individual shooters might have provided for themselves. I've read that military units usually "reloaded" by having 2nd and 3rd ++ guns ---especially guerilla or irregular units.

I consider that spare cylinder thing a hollywood myth. They would have to fit and tune the cylinder to the revolver, no evidence of spare cylinders being shipped or sold so more than likely would have came from another gun. As you say extra revolvers was the norm for those needing more firepower and there is plenty of documented evidence of that. Clint Eastwood got it right in Josey Wales and not so much with Pale Rider.

 

[Cowhide Cliff]

I’ve also seen photos(tin type) of troops that were issued extra cylinder pouches, but the cylinders may have been private purchases.

Do you have a link or example of the cylinder pouches?

I'm a leather maker of reproduction leather and have studied many actual drawings and specifications for the military holsters, ammo pouches, and other gear but have NEVER seen a military issue spare cylinder pouch nor the specifications and drawings for one.

I would suspect you saw a cap pouch.

 

[Eyrie G. Dogg]

Friend Kerry Barlow is an embarrassment. I actually feel sorry for the poor guy. Imagine writing an entire article concerning a subject of which you know nothing about. Sad. The brass Remington at the top of the article is a tip-off that more nonsense will likely follow ... and sure enough …

 

[Steel Hayes]

Do you have a link or example of the cylinder pouches?

I was all set to refute you Cliff, then I noticed the date on the photo of 1874.
Its from the Indian wars era, never mind me.

 

[Pocket]

I had my suspicions that that Cabelas model was not correct length wise.

The more I look at the 8 inch model... it is more difficult to not hit the "pay now" button.