loaded magazines

[Zach S]

This just isnt true.

Think about how many places sell replacement valve springs.

Broken valve springs are a pretty uncommon problem unless they're subjected to the abuse of a more aggressive cam or rockers arms, which forces them to operate outside of the range they were designed for. In stock applications, valve springs typically last the life of the motor, and then some.

I drive three vehicles, which collectively have about 830k miles on them, and none have had a broken valve spring. I have a fourth car, that did break a valve spring, but any Fairmont capable of 140mph is far from stock...

 

[GLOOB]

Some of the manufacturers are pushing the limits on their mag capacity. The 8 round 1911 mags I have won't even fit in the gun unless you open the slide, first. If I ever manage to stuff one in, I wouldn't rely on it, long term, without some firsthand experience.

A well known example of over-compressed mag springs: Browning Hi Power. British armed forces carried the gun with 12 rounds in the mag, rather than the full 13. They found the last round compromised reliability.

 

[danez71]

Broken valve springs are a pretty uncommon problem unless they're subjected to the abuse of a more aggressive cam or rockers arms, which forces them to operate outside of the range they were designed for. In stock applications, valve springs typically last the life of the motor, and then some.

Yeah.... Broken (or worn) valve springs are so uncommon that just about every auto parts store in America has some in stock.

I agree that they still may work BUT if you measure them... they would not have the same results as when they were new.

Additionally, on a multi cylinder engine, only one spring is fully compressed when not running. There are also 3,5,7,9 other valve springs. They work as a system. Heck.... some even have 2 springs per valve.

Not that many people as a percentage leave their car not running for months/years as compared to loaded mags.


Valve springs are about 2+" long and get compressed about 1/2" = about 25%, maybe less, compression ratio. Whereas most mag springs get compressed over 50%. BIG DIFFERENCE.




Anyways..... a sping can be degraded and still function fine. But to say things like "they only get worn from cycling" or "storing them under compression will have no effect on them" is just simply not accurate.

 

[Dogguy]

Quote:
rotate a fully loaded one every few months


"how would that help? The springs don't get tired or bored in there, you're just adding a cycle to their lifetime."

Every time you shoot dry and reload your magazine, you do the same thing.

 

[Zach S]

Yeah.... Broken (or worn) valve springs are so uncommon that just about every auto parts store in America has some in stock.

No they don't - but they can get them the same or next day, depending on what time you go in and how far from a hub you are.

 

[Walt Sherrill]

This subject has been covered here and elsewhere. Everyone will tell you you can use them without worry, leave them fully loaded, etc. etc. This is based on their experience.

The spring experts, engineers who are familiar with spring steel, and others in the industry will tell you that HI-CAP mags and compact gun mags put greater stress on mag springs than standard 10-round (9mm) or 7-round (.45) mags do.

Wolff Springs recommends downloading the hi-cap and compact mags a round or two for long-term storage. (Check their FAQ area for more info.) Their argument is that springs, when they are pushed and held at their design limits, will deteriorate. Springs that aren't stressed to their limit will last a long time. (Valve springs in cars are designed for their application, and aren't stressed beyond their limits.)

Some springs in newer guns, which are smaller and hold more rounds, are being pushed farther than has been the case in years past. Gun designers apparently are using springs as disposable parts to get their guns to do more. (Recoil springs in compact guns don't have the same "life" as the recoil springs in full-size guns, either.)

Chances are you'll not notice a problem for a long, long time. But I've had springs in compact guns go pretty quickly. Use the guns in question frequently to check them out. Replacement springs aren't that expensive.

 

[danez71]

Walt, very well said.

 

[GLOOB]

You don't know what they can take until you break them. So go ahead and load 'em all the way and see how much that can take. In the meantime, keep a revolver handy.

 

[ExAgoradzo]

In the meantime, keep a revolver handy.

LOL!

 

[Walt Sherrill]

"how would that help? The springs don't get tired or bored in there, you're just adding a cycle to their lifetime."

Every time you shoot dry and reload your magazine, you do the same thing.

If the experts are correct, cycling won't be much of a problem unless the mag being cycled is a hi-cap or compact mag that starts from fully loaded or is kept fully loaded.

Cycling isn't a real problem for a spring unless the spring is highly stressed during the cycle.

Download a hi-cap mag one or two rounds, and you'd probably see the springs last a long, long time -- regardless of how long they're used or how often they're cycled. Cycling those springs isn't a problem unless the springs are really PUSHED toward their elastic limit during the cycle. (Note: many mags use the same springs for 10-rounders as they do for the similar 15 or 16 round mags. Guess which spring is working harder?)

A hi-cap double-stack mag must LIFT a lot of rounds a long way. If they're kept fully loaded (fully compressed), that's a lot of strain on that spring -- and it's a big strain right at the point of where the spring is at it's maximum compression. The same sort of thing happens with a single-stack compact mag -- which holds more rounds proportionately than a standard (full-size) mag.

(Talk with the folks who shoot spring-powered air guns, and they'll tell you that keeping springs fully compressed weakens the springs faster than heavy usage.)

Rotating mags just spreads the wear. Rested springs don't rejuvenate themselves. And if they're stored fully loaded, and they're hi-cap or compact mags, you might be doing more harm than good by rotating them.

 

[Dogguy]

Walt, I was just pointing out that people constantly say it's the loading and unloading magazines that cause the springs to wear but don't seem to realize that's what they do every time they shoot the magazine dry and reload it.

Wolff Gunsprings also says rotating magazines, when practical, will help increase spring life. I like to keep a magazine or two (or more) fully loaded at all times for my self defense autoloaders. Since I have at least a dozen magazines for every gun and all of them are high capacity magazines, I rotate magazines every three months. This has worked extremely well for me for a couple of decades now. It doesn't mean the spring will not wear out eventually but it does seem to keep magazines functioning for the long haul. As an example, I rebuilt all my early Glock 19 magazines when they were just over 18 years old. They were still functioning fine but I knew that 18 years of rotation and cycling had to have caused them to weaken somewhat. I didn't want to take a chance on that happening at the wrong time.