Loading .45 ACP

[Charlie98]

200’s and WST here....works well

I'm a big fan of WST with 200grn (and likely 185's if I loaded them...) but not so much with 230's, that's where I like a little slower powder, like Unique or BE-86. Granted, I'm loading full-power cartridges, not target level loads.

 

[mmb617]

I got my first .45 pistol about 6 weeks ago so I'm still experimenting with some loads. It's an M&P Compact with 4" barrel and I tried 4.7 grains of Titegroup with 230 grain plated RN bullets and averaged 745 fps.That is close to the listed max load of 4.8 grains.

With the same bullets using 6.3 grains of CFE I averaged 815 fps. The listed max is 6.8, so it's more a moderate load.

I had a couple issues of shaving with the plated bullets so I've since switched to FMJ's which has eliminated that problem but I haven't had a chance to chrono them yet.

 

[Charlie98]

I had a couple issues of shaving with the plated bullets

In what respect? During seating? There are a few things to look at if that's the problem...

 

[Ej3]

Happy Father’s Day!

I am excited to report the results of the 230 gr. XTP bullets and BE-86. My best group was 6.6 gr. set at 1.230" COL. The average was 876 fps, but only four of five shots were recorded. Regardless, based on my group I feel like that is very good load. Decent recoil and primers looked good. I started at 6.0 gr and it was good too, although I pulled the first shot. I am very happy with the BE-86 and XTP bullets.



Note - I loaded the XTP bullets to 1.230” COL per the Hornady 10th Ed. book. My 9th Ed. Book indicates 1.210”, but this puts the beginning of the rounded edge slightly below the case mouth.

 

[mmb617]

In what respect? During seating? There are a few things to look at if that's the problem...

Yes, during seating. What should I be looking for? I have yet to see any problem with the FMJ's with the case expander die set the same.

Since the problem would only crop up once or twice per hundred I blamed it on the bullets. In my mind the plating was inconsistent and would shave sometimes in a thick spot. Maybe that's not the case but it makes sense to me.

Any input you have would be appreciated. I'm always open to learning.

 

[kmw1954]

I had a couple issues of shaving with the plated bullets so I've since switched to FMJ's which has eliminated that problem but I haven't had a chance to chrono them yet.

Are you seating and crimping in the same stroke? How much crimp are you using? Is this new once fired brass? All three of these could cause shaving.
I seat and crimp while using my Lee Pro1000 and at times see a slight shave with both plated and cast lead and then I back my crimp off a slight amount.

 

[Charlie98]

Yes, during seating. What should I be looking for? I have yet to see any problem with the FMJ's with the case expander die set the same.

Since the problem would only crop up once or twice per hundred I blamed it on the bullets. In my mind the plating was inconsistent and would shave sometimes in a thick spot. Maybe that's not the case but it makes sense to me.

Any input you have would be appreciated. I'm always open to learning.

Usually screwing in a bit more case mouth bell will fix the intermittent shaving, this is true with lead bullets as well. KMW is also correct... if you seat and crimp in one step, it's possible too heavy a crimp will shave or even split the plating. The fix for that is a separate crimp die... seat in one die, crimp in another. I do this with almost everything I load for. It's also possible, depending on the dies you are using, is the bullet enters the case slightly cockeyed... or even the case is not quite square on the shellplate or shell holder.

 

[Jetav8r]

For 45ACP I have been loading 230 gr RN Bayou Bullets over 5.8 gr of BE-86. Average velocity is 839 fps with a COAL of 1.261. This works very well for me.

 

[brewer12345]

My go to target load is a 200 grain coated swc over 4.5 grains of bullseye. I shoot buckets of this. I also load a full power load of the same bullet over 7 grains of Unique.

 

[luzyfuerza]

You chose well with AA#5 and Titegroup, both are excellent .45 ACP powders. Don't forget the classic standard: 5.0 of Bullseye and 230 FMJ. I have yet to find a 1911 that shoots it bad-some do really well, but all shoot good with it.

My go to target load is a 200 grain coated swc over 4.5 grains of bullseye. I shoot buckets of this. I also load a full power load of the same bullet over 7 grains of Unique.

I'm also a fan of Bullseye in .45 ACP. For 230 grain FMJ bullets, 5.5 grains of Bullseye duplicates the velocity of my carry ammo at 843 fps through a 4-inch barrel. With a variety of 230-grain LRN bullets, including those that drop from a Lee TL452-230, my favorite is a 5.0 grain charge of Bullseye that produces just under 800 fps.

Reloading is an adventure, but its good to start with tried and true recipes, and to explore from there.

 

[mmb617]

Are you seating and crimping in the same stroke? How much crimp are you using? Is this new once fired brass? All three of these could cause shaving.
I seat and crimp while using my Lee Pro1000 and at times see a slight shave with both plated and cast lead and then I back my crimp off a slight amount.

I am seating and crimping in separate steps. I only have one pistol that uses .45 acp so I take the barrel from that gun and set my crimp die so the rounds pass the plunk test. It's not a lot of crimp as I don't see a noticeable indentation, just enough to remove the bell. I can feel it doing that as the rounds pass through the crimp die, some rounds more than others. Some rounds pass through with no resistance. Some of the brass is once fired and some had been fired multiple times but it's all run through the sizing die before loading.

Usually screwing in a bit more case mouth bell will fix the intermittent shaving, this is true with lead bullets as well. KMW is also correct... if you seat and crimp in one step, it's possible too heavy a crimp will shave or even split the plating. The fix for that is a separate crimp die... seat in one die, crimp in another. I do this with almost everything I load for. It's also possible, depending on the dies you are using, is the bullet enters the case slightly cockeyed... or even the case is not quite square on the shellplate or shell holder.

I set my expander die and hand fit a couple bullets to see that the base of the bullet enters cleanly without overexpanding the mouth. I don't know of any exact measurement for this and assume it's just by experience. As mentioned above I do have separate seat and crimp dies.

I reload on a single stage so each bullet is placed on the case by hand and I'm careful to get them as square to the case as possible before pulling the handle, and I can see that the case is completely inserted into the shell holder.


I was curious to get some input on why the problem was occurring with those plated bullets. So far I haven't seen any shaving with the FMJ's so I'll just stay with them in the future.

I'd like to thank you guys for taking the time to give me your thoughts.

 

[Texas10mm]

The plated bullets are most likely .452 while jacketed are .451. Most dies are set up for .451.

I load lead .452. I have a custom powder funnel in my Dillon 650 to properly expand the case mouth to prevent shaving of the coating on the bullet.

 

[kmw1954]

Also two completely separate processes are used to make plated and jacketed. From what I know the jacketing material is much thicker and harder than what is used on plated. I have cut both with heavy side cutters and there is a huge difference in effort needed to cut the jackets.

 

[Ej3]

The plated bullets are most likely .452 while jacketed are .451. Most dies are set up for .451.

For loading coated bullets in 9mm, I ended up getting a Lyman M-die, which solved shaving issues that I was experiencing. Perhaps this would solve your issue in 45 ACP with plated bullets. https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1011246697

For loading 45 ACP I bought the Lee Deluxe Carbide 4-Die Set. In my experience, the Lee expander die works fine for the poly coated bullets, also .452” diameter. But I found the expander die step to be a bit rough on the down stroke, so now I spray a very light application of Hornady’s One Shot before sizing. This smooths out the expanding step following sizing, and I am assuming may help ease the bullet when seating. I do not wipe it off as Hornady claims it will not contaminate powder or primers. Maybe you can try the Hornady’s One Shot like I described above.

Also, I have never loaded plated bullets, but the SNS Casting bullets are a coated with Hi-Tek Supercoat, which is a polymer coating. Perhaps it is tougher than plated. The SNS coated bullets also have a nice bevel at the base. Regardless, I would encourage you to order their 100 count sample pack and give them a try. They have many 45 ACP bullet options.

 

[ballman6711]

I recently started loading coated bullets for my 45acp, and found with the larger diameter (.452 vs .451 jacketed) I had to increase my flare ever so slightly to seat my bullets without a problem.

chris

 

[Texas10mm]

Also two completely separate processes are used to make plated and jacketed. From what I know the jacketing material is much thicker and harder than what is used on plated. I have cut both with heavy side cutters and there is a huge difference in effort needed to cut the jackets.

Plated bullets use pure copper. Jacketed bullet usually use an alloy which is normally MUCH harder.

Bullets like the Speer Gold Dot are actually plated bullets.

 

[lordpaxman]

I was curious to get some input on why the problem was occurring with those plated bullets. So far I haven't seen any shaving with the FMJ's so I'll just stay with them in the future.

Since you seat and crimp in separate operations, it’s most likely how much bell the expander is putting on the case. I’ve never had shaving occur with an FMJ, the jacket material is as hard or harder than the case. A plated bullet may or may not shave, but a coated bullet will need a sufficient bell so the seating process doesn’t shave it. I usually put a bit more bell on the case when I’m loading coated. I don’t like to as it works the case a bit more, but I also don’t like shavings in the press, and also what that might do to a more consistent load. You may also end up with a shaving at the mouth of the case that may interfere with chambering.
If you like and can afford FMJs, by all means they are less finicky than coated or lead. Supposedly they’re more precise as well. I only load coated as there were several of us doing a group buy and when you load many K’s, a few pennies a round can add up. Good luck!

 

[mmb617]

Also two completely separate processes are used to make plated and jacketed. From what I know the jacketing material is much thicker and harder than what is used on plated.

Plated bullets use pure copper. Jacketed bullet usually use an alloy which is normally MUCH harder.

This confirms what I thought was the main problem with the plated bullets. I know the last FMJ bullets I bought are a completely different color, more towards a brassy look than a copper color, so I knew it had to be a different alloy. I also had read that the plating is thin while the jacketed bullets have a much thicker coat around the lead core.

You may also end up with a shaving at the mouth of the case that may interfere with chambering.

If you like and can afford FMJs, by all means they are less finicky than coated or lead.

I did have some problems related to shaving interfering with chambering with the plated bullets which is the main reason I don't want to have to worry about it.

I'm certainly not wealthy but I am willing to spend a little more on the FMJ's to avoid potential problems.

 

[Walkalong]

I have shot a ton of plated bullets without shaving, it's all a matter of enough flare, although some seaters are so tight they remove some of the flare before the bullet is seated completely, so that's something to check.

 

[Ej3]

Below are the results of my Sport Pistol tests using SNS Casting 230 gr polycoated RN bullets, set to a COL of 1.250”, using GECO brass & CCI-300 LPP. I would say that the ES & SD numbers were not great, but overall the combination shot well for me. I am not the best shot, but off the bench/sand bag, 5.2 gr. gave me the best group (about 5/8" for 5 shots). However, 5.2 to 5.5 all shot well. I started with 5.0, 5.2, 5.4 & 5.6. Then loaded 5.3 & 5.5 after seeing the results of 5.2 & 5.4. I will probably just load these to 5.2 gr. Primers looked good up the 5.6 mark, which is listed as max by Alliant for Speer LRN at 1.27”.

 

[Toprudder]

Those deviations and spreads are better than what I was seeing with my loads. Some of them were pretty good.

 

[murf]

Yes, during seating.

make sure the die body is unscrewed enough to be well out of the way. you may have some long cases that get to the crimp part of your seating die when you seat.

luck,

murf

 

[GW Staar]

I've been working with BE-86 and SportPistol in the .45 also... so far, so good. One of the other members here has done some testing with both and found SportPistol to be a bit position sensitive in the .45, however. Not a big fan of TiteGroup, but that's just personal preference. As you might have guessed, I AM a big fan of Unique in the .45, particularly with 230grn bullets.

Nice pistol, BTW!

Yes it it a nice pistol.....I passed forward my 70 series Gold Cup I had for years for a Kimber SS II target. I do love KImbers. Not near smooth and easy an action as the other, but that was was too valuable to shoot.....so I sold it to someone more appeciative.

Like Charlie I've shot an enjoyed a lot of Unique in my time. Now that's it's not the favorte sweetie of the young crowd anymore, I find it easier to find. A huge blessinng for my interests.....oops let that one gp by/ Kidding.....not needing any more for a while.......or maybe I'll buy two more.....

 

[Ej3]

I did some more testing with the Sport Pistol using 5.2 gr with the 230 gr polycoated RN bullets set at 1.250” COL. My first test loads were done using GECO brass and CCI 300 LPP. Yesterday it was 90*F and today it was only 76*F this morning during testing, so naturally the speeds were down a bit. Today I used Starline brass with one test using CCI 300 primers and the second test using Fed GMM primers. Both produced similar groups (although I pulled one shot with the FGMM primer test). However, the FGMM primers improved ES & SD numbers. Overall I like the Sport Pistol with the 230 gr PCRN bullets. But I will likely use Titegroup with the 230 gr PCRN bullets to produce similar results with better ES & SD numbers. With either powder, this is a nice shooting and economical target round.

 

[Ej3]

After loading my original FMJ bullets with Accurate #5 too hot, I tried some lower charges. This time I used Starline brass. Today I hit a real winner. The 7.6 gr was very accurate, nice recoil and had good ES & SD numbers. The average was 793 fps. It was 75*F at the time of testing. I am very happy with Accurate #5. IMO, the 7.8 gr test could have been better. I think I had some poor shooting during that test. It averaged 832 fps with good ES & SD numbers. I will likely retest that load later. So I think 7.6 to 7.8 gr will work good with the combination.