Loading 45 colt with BP?

[ndh87]

I have a uberti .45 colt. I've been wanting to try some BP loads in it and was wondering if anyone here could tell me the basics of loading BP rounds.

Mainly i am just worried about putting too much in and blowing out the cylinder.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Try Hodgdon online for loading info. Your basic problem isn't loading too much, there's only so much powder the case will hold assuming you remember to use the proper granulation. The danger is loading them too light, and leaving an air gap inside the case. Air gaps in a case with smokeless powder ok, with black powder or a substitute, not good at all. Most folks that I have spoken with who load a light BP load take up the additional space with a filler like grits, or cream of wheat. There are others out there as well.

LD

 

[rcmodel]

You can't put too much in it.
It won't fit.

I would probably suggest 35 grains of FFFG with a 255 gr. bullet for close to a factory duplication load.

The original BP load was 40 grains FFFG & a 255 bullet.

Modern BP is less dense, and modern solid-head cases will not hold as much as the old balloon-head cases used during BP days either.

In any event, black powder is dangerous to handle.
The slightest spark can set it off, and it will blow your dauber off.
Be really careful while reloading with it.

And really really clean you gun good with soap & water after shooting it.
Left to do it's thing, it will rust the chrome off a trailer hitch ball!


rcmodel

 

[mec]

Venturino has an article in this month's Guns Magazine. He manages to get 35 grains of goex fffg under a 250 grain bullet. (solid head cases hold less than the old folded head.with those, the standard full charge was .40 grains.)

Venturino uses black powder lubricant- spg I believe and loads his cases through a long drop tube to settle it in the case. He believes these proceedures keeps the fouling soft for fairly extended shooting.

 

[Tommygunn]

With regard to loading black powder in cases; sparks -- static electricity and the like are dangerous. If you really get into it, there are special loading tools for it made out of wood and other non-conductive materials that are designed for it, and it's wise to invest in them. I believe Cabela's had 'em last I looked, but other places might have them as well.

 

[Jim Watson]

Venturino has an article in this month's Guns Magazine

Huh, double dipping. He has similar in the sister 'zine American Handgunner.

Bear in mind that while the original load for .45 Colt was 40 grains, they had enough guns made out of wrought iron and mild steel to fail proof test that they reduced the charge to 30 grains. Back up to 35 later.

Note that he was getting over 1000 fps from 38 gr FFFg in 250 gr .45 Colt from a 7 1/2" barrel.
He got a 250 up to 738 fps from only 19 gr FFFg in a Uberti .44 Russian; and that is about what you can do with that heavy a bullet in .45 ACP. Don't mistake "black powder" for "low powered."

Dangers of static electricity are exaggerated. There is a site somewhere showing inch long sparks from a neon sign tester jumping to a pile of black powder... and no ignition.

 

[rcmodel]

It's not so much the granuals you have to worry about a spark setting off.

It's the fine dust, and there is always fine dust around BP reloading equipment.

Don't under-estimate or downplay the danger.


rcmodel

 

[Sistema1927]

Captain Baylor has some good information. Make sure to look at all of his pages.

 

[Bad Flynch]

Yes, yes, yes! By all means, shoot BP in your Uberti; I do mine. I will agree with most of what has been written here, and in particular with J.W.

Buy soft bullets that are lubed with a soft, gooey, BP lube. Don't shoot hard bullets or hard, waxy lube. It is just more hassle. 255 grain bullet will work nicely to start off with, and the Colt traditional bullet is a RN with a small meplat. You can load hollow-based bullets, if you can find or cast them, but flat-based bullets are fine if sized correctly. I always order or size to 0.454" for any .45 Colt cartridge. The over-sized bullet does no harm in any gun. Try www.cowboybullets.com for starters; I've had good luck with them.

Shoot either FFg or FFFg or mix them to make 2&1/2Fg. I experimented with this and FFg is fine, but velocity is low. FFFg is fine, but fouls heavily. The Frankford Arsenal used a powder that approximated 2&1/2Fg. That works great and the fouling is less than with FFFg. Goex is fine, Swiss is better. A 30 to 35 grain load is fine, and less is OK as long as the case is filled. I shoot 20 grains with grits as a filler lots of times. There is no real need for a card wad in the pistol cases. Get a powder compression die from www.buffaloarms.com. You will need it sooner or later. You can stuff 40 grains of powder in a case with a compression die, but 40 grains is a real stout load. It's a hoot! Winchester cases are preferred because of their thinner walls and resultant larger capacity. However, Starline work well, they're just a little harder to get a bit load into.

I like WW large pistol primers. They are a little hotter than some of the rest (WW primers are hotter to compensate for WW ball powders).

A good, tight crimp is best, so use the Lee Factory Carbide crimp die. Besides, it will resize your cases on the way back out of the die and all your ammo will chamber properly.

My Uberti is an old Cimarron and has 0.458" cylinder throats. I ordered a special mould that casts 0.458" bullets and ordered a special sizing die and a Lee Carbide Factory crimp die to properly load the bigger bullets. I works great.

Beware of the static electricity warnings: The jury is still out on this one. I'll agree that it is not as big a problem as once was thought, but someone just brought out a rifle that uses an electronic ignition system, a la spark plug or something like that. Until I find out how they are doing that, I will still be at least cautious around BP.

 

[mec]

Huh, double dipping

Nope. I got both magazines in the same package. The article is in American Handgunner.

 

[Ed Gallop]

I loaded 40 gr and it is a bit much. A couple shots and you couldn't find the exit door in a saloon. I switched to Tripple 7 because it is easier to clean up but I prefer black powder and keep some black powder rounds ready for visitor's to experience.

I have never feared black powder but have a lot of diciplined respect for it. Fact is, I treat smokeless with the same respect.

The only really important difference in loading black powder (or subs) is not to leave air space in a cartridge. That will do more harm than heavy loads. Ed.

 

[Pulp]

Your question was about reloading, but I wanted to throw in some extra info to make your experience more pleasant. Before shooting BP (assuming your using the real thing, and not some new fangled substitute) clean you Uberti thoroughly with soap and water. Get all the smokeless residue and smokeless solvents out of your gun. Then swab the barrel, cylinder, and cylinder pin with Bore Butter. If you can find it get some Ballistol. This will make clean up much easier after firing BP through the gun. BP fouling becomes very hard to clean if it is mixed with Hoppes #9 or other products designed for smokeless powder.
Concerning the Ballistol, mix some of it 9 parts water, 1 part Ballistol. Use this "moose milk" for cleaning, then use full strength Ballistol for lubing and protection.

 

[Bad Flynch]

>Concerning the Ballistol, mix some of it 9 parts water, 1 part Ballistol. Use this "moose milk" for cleaning, then use full strength Ballistol for lubing and protection.<

Yep.

 

[foob]

Dangers of static electricity are exaggerated. There is a site somewhere showing inch long sparks from a neon sign tester jumping to a pile of black powder... and no ignition.

Here it is: http://www.ctmuzzleloaders.com/ctml_experiments/sparks/sparks.html

 

[Pulp]

Dangers of static electricity are exaggerated. There is a site somewhere showing inch long sparks from a neon sign tester jumping to a pile of black powder... and no ignition.

On the other hand Mythbusters used a car spark plug to ignite BP. Worked every time.

 

[mykeal]

First of all, there is no way that powder was 4f Swiss. The grains are much, much too large. Even when he claims he ground it into a "dust like consistency" the picture clearly shows that not to be the case.

Nonetheless his explanation of the physics is interesting and entirely feasible. He essentially, and I think correctly, asserts that the powder itself acted as a conductor and did not heat up (that is , did not offer enough resistance to become hot) enough to reach ignition temperature.

The explanation does not go far enough, however. It is clear that the presence of any contaminant that does offer enough resistance to become hot would be sufficient to cause ignition. In effect the anode itself could be the heated element, so ignoring the possibility of a static electricity charge causing ignition of black powder is foolish; the unknown presence of a resistive contaminant provides the necessary catalyst and cannot always be ruled out, especially in informal home workship settings.

The experiment does demonstrate the conductive properties of pure black powder itself. However, to be completely representative of a real life situation it needs to include resistive contaminants that might be found in a home situation. There is significant anecdotal evidence that static electricity has caused unexpected ignition in both home and factory situations, so the phenomenon cannot be dismissed on the basis of this experiment alone.

In fact, there are commercially available electronic ignition systems for black powder muzzleloading rifles (eg, the CVA Electra). There is also at least one US patent for such a system: United States Patent 20050188872. So it is possible to ignite black powder with an electrical spark.

Many, many people have successfully conducted bp cartridge loading operations informally for many years. Clearly the occurance of static electricity igniting black powder is very unusual, if not outright rare. However, the simple fact that has happened shows that it can, and that precaution is warranted.