Loading 9mm - concerns

[johnandersonoutdoors]

I have been loading since this past fall and feeling a lot more comfortable but still taking it very slow and steady.

As you can imagine when I began loading 9mm I did have some once fired brass that I had been saving. It was all Federal brass. I am loading on a redding big boss. I have loaded and fired 1000 rounds so far. All federal cases I had measured very close to .752 or .753. I adjusted my dies and went on my way. I experienced some setback with my first dummy rounds back when I started but got those kinks worked out. Those 1000 rounds were all measured for oal at 1.135 to 1.140 so I was happy with that. The crimped mouths came to .376 to .378 and again I was happy with that. All 1000 rounds performed flawlessly.

I am getting a "feel" for it as they say. You can tell when some cases have tight primer pockets vs. loose and it seems I can tell the difference when some cases have less neck tension as well. Those ones get marked for closer inspection and setback testing.

Now I have moved on to a huge pile of mixed 9mm brass that I have as well. I have seen many posts here and youtube videos where guys say they don't trim, or measure brass. They claim this just throw it in the press and go. I am a little leery about this so I have made two subgroups from my mixed brass. A bucket for .744 to .749 and another one for brass that measures .750 to .754. I have been measuring every single piece of brass and a few have been shorter than .744 and more than a few have been longer than .754. The ones shorter than .744 have been recycled and the ones longer than .754 have been set aside.

Loading a batch of 100 rounds today I took 90 pieces of brass from my .750 to .754 pile and decided to add in 10 that measure between .744 to .746. Of course these are supposed to be within spec. I specifically marked the .744 to .746 cases and proceeded to load. Just as I suspected, the cases that were .744 to .746 did not end up with much if any crimp. The mouth measured .382 on those cases which is out of spec per my manual.

I don't know what to make of all of this. It seems to me that you cannot get a uniform crimp (or even a safe crimp) when using 9mm brass that varies in length between .744 and .754. So how do guys just throw all their brass in the press an GO?

On a side note, two of the rounds made using shorter cases experienced extreme setback using the thumb test. The finished rounds were about 1.135 oal but after setback testing (just using thumb pressure pushing round against workbench) they were measure 1.070 and 1.085. Had those two cases simply lost all neck tension?

Sorry for the long post but I wanted to put in as much detail as I could. Any thoughts or advice?

 

[rcmodel]

Taper Crimp doesn't hold the bullet in place.

Proper case neck tension holds the bullet in place.

Some of your mixed brass is thinner, or thicker, or softer, or harder.

So your case neck tension is all over the place.

Sort it by head stamp and deal with case neck tension issues separately by head stamp.

Any reload that you can push the bullet back by thumb pressure alone is not safe to shoot.

It should take a trip to the ER shortly after you apply 50-70 pounds of force to a bullet tip with your thumb!

If you can squeeze it and shorten it by hand pressure alone?

You are either Superman the man of steel, an iron worker, or you don't have enough case neck tension.

BTW: Too much taper crimp can make a bullet looser, not tighter.
Crimp to .376" measured at the case mouth, no more.

rc

 

[johnandersonoutdoors]

rcmodel,

I know the crimp does nothing for holding the bullet in place, but I didn't think about brass thickness and such. That is a good point.

Is sorting truly the answer, and if so how does that help? The reason I ask is because I have 500 rounds that have been loaded with mixed headstamps. A large number of them have been checked for setback by thumb test and by cycling once or twice through my m&p. They were measure and there was virtually no setback (maybe .001 or .002). If some brass is thicker or thinner, what am I supposed to adjust to account for this? They all go through the same resizing, powder belling die, and crimping. Say I separate my brass, how do I adjust my dies so that I still get good ammo when working with thicker or thinner brass?

How do I deal with case neck tension issues using brass that has been separated?

This will probably sound naive, but I was assuming that I could get my dies dialed in a not adjust them. Of the 1500 rounds that I have loaded, I have not adjusted my dies since dialing them in back in November. Every single round that I have made, including those with mixed brass, have measure 1.135 to 1.138 oal and .376 to .378 at the mouth except for the two I had today that I mentioned in my first post.

 

[rcmodel]

Well, what I do is figure out which head-stamp provided unsafe case neck tension when I run into it.

And throw the rest of it in the scrap brass bucket.

Too each his own though I guess.

rc

 

[CZ9shooter]

I have found a few brands of 9mm brass in my experiance that tend to have less neck tension than most others. I seperate those from the rest and use them for cast bullets. The slightly larger diameter of the lead bullet gives a snugger fit. The cases that are known to be tighter get jacketed bullets.

 

[johnandersonoutdoors]

I agree. I have so much 9mm that I would be glad to throw away offending brass.

I have had great success with no setback using FC, WIN, PMC, CBC, S&B, Lake City, and probably a few others I am leaving out. The few RWS and ICC that I find hit the recyle can.

Can you tell me what brass you find acceptable guys in terms of good neck tension?

Also I was originally tracking my federal brass to count number of times reloaded but saw many people saying this would not be necessary. If you don't know how many times a cases has bee reloaded can you be confident in the neck tension that it will provide?

Thank you so much. I am still learning.

 

[rcmodel]

Worn out 9mm brass will neck crack either during re-sizing, expanding & belling, seating, or when it is fired.

Otherwise, it is good to go until it is lost in the weeds.





rc

 

[LiveLife]

On a side note, two of the rounds made using shorter cases experienced extreme setback using the thumb test. The finished rounds were about 1.135 oal but after setback testing (just using thumb pressure pushing round against workbench) they were measure 1.070 and 1.085.

As rcmodel posted, you shouldn't be able to push the bullet with your thumb. If you can, you certainly did not have enough neck tension.

A better test for neck tension is measuring the OALs before and after feeding the round from the magazine. The force of the slide/recoil spring bumping the bullet nose against the ramp better duplicate the forces the finished rounds will experience during firing.

I use mixed range brass and do not sort by head stamp or trim my cases but I do check for neck tension by measuring OALs of my test rounds.

Had those two cases simply lost all neck tension?

Brass becomes less pliable with work hardening. Some of the cases could have experienced "spring back" where case neck expanded back after being resized. Add to this the varying thickness of case wall and you could result in poor neck tension.

 

[LeftyTSGC]

What type of bullets are you reloading with? .355 is common for 9mm. Make sure you are not accidently loading .38 or some other bullets? Just a thought.

 

[LiveLife]

To QC check for brass spring back, measure the inside diameter of resized case mouths. If you identify cases that have "sprung back" with inside diameter measurements too close to .355", I would toss/recycle those cases.

Resize 10 samples of different head stamps you have and see what the inside measurements are.

 

[CZ9shooter]

WIN, RP, and S&B are my preferred brands. Although S&B tend to have tight primer pockets, no big deal. A few others work well too, cant recall them at this time. FC and Blazer are the ones I primarily use for cast loads.

I ran into AMA headstamp one time, not sure of the actuall band name, they had good tension at first but seemed to loose it after one or two loadings. I have since decided to chuck them when I find them.

These are my findings, your results may vary. And I wouldn't be surprised if the way I sort cases changes over time with differences between lots in the brass factories. Just a theory, but who knows?


And I dont count how many times I load 9mm cases. When I find them cracked, or they crack when resizing, they are done. Takes quite a while, most disappear before that happens.

 

[Marlin 45 carbine]

9mm brass is fairly cheap. I reload one fired cases 2x to use in pistols then a 3rd load to shoot from my 9mm carbine which tosses brass a good ways. I just leave this lay - if someone picks it up I hope they check it over well. the carbine (marlin) is built hail-for-stout so a split neck or even body isn't much concern. I've never had a blown rim - hope I don't either. 2 nephews have 9mm carbines also. good +P handloads make them all shine.
shot one of them today at a cook-out and shoot, the kel-tec.

 

[johnandersonoutdoors]

I never thought of measuring the inside of the case mouth after resizing. I will do that. I am still surprised by the two rounds that setback so dramatically today. I went to the bench a minute ago to look at the headstamp and they are FC, which I have been using a lot of and have not had any issues.

I am using .355 FMJ montana gold bullets. I measure some today after the setback issue and they are right at .355 and .356.

Here is my normal reloading routine. Take a batch of 100 mix headstamp that were resized in an earlier session. Put each one through caliper and measure cartridge length and then into case gauge. Once they are loaded, I measure all of them for oal and at the case mouth. Then I cycle at least 10 through my gun and measure for setback and everything has been working out well (other than the two cases today).

Other than measuring inside of case mouth (which I will now do) for "spring back" is there anything else you can do? I thought these two cases felt like they had less neck tension when I seated the bullets but would never have guessed the dramatic setback just based on the feel you get seating the bullet. I feel like I will be concerned about any case now that doesn't provide a lot of resistance when seating the bullet.

Also, I am planning to move up to a progressive soon and I am worried about loosing the "feel" that I do have on my single stage currently.

 

[LiveLife]

We discussed neck tension, case neck spring back and bullet set back issues on previous discussion threads.

I had some problems with older "FC" head stamp but the new ".FC." and "Federal" head stamps seem to be better. Some posted that new head stamps are made in different plants.

I like measureable outcomes, consistency and repeatability in reloading. I hate neck tension issues and bullet set back as they can increase chamber pressures to way over max even when you are using mid range load data.

See if you can pull the bullets from the two cases you experienced poor neck tension and measure the inside case mouths after being resized. If they experienced spring back, your calipers should show it.

 

[CZ9shooter]

That's one reason I have yet to upgrade to a progressive. I'm still on a single stage. Been reloading for about two years. I usually reload 100 (9mm and recently .38 special) at a time about three times a month on average. Some time is involved, but my time is free. I get satisfaction from being able to "feel" every operation on every round. Plus QC is a concern of mine and its very easy on a single stage.

 

[LiveLife]

mboe794, you can do batch loading with progressive press in stages to check each case.

For my match loads, I would resize/deprime all of my brass first on the progressive press just with the resizing/depriming die and the case feeder. I would then check the resized cases using the barrel drop test to cull any overly bulged cases and inspect the primer pockets/clean as necessary and hand primed the cases.

Then I loaded the primed cases in the progressive press with the resizing/depriming die removed. This way, it was still much faster than single stage reloading and lack of shell plate tilting from resizing cases resulted in more consistent OALs.

YMMV.

 

[Potatohead]

Good info, thanks poster and postees

 

[Potatohead]

I would then check the resized cases using the barrel drop test

Is this just like the name suggests BDS? Drop it down the barrel? What exactly are you looking for? Just bulges?

 

[vongh]

When I do a barrel drop test I remove my barrel from the gun and take a few loaded rounds and drop them into my barrel. I check to make sure they go in smoothly and line up flush with end of my barrel. As long a my loads are slightly longer than minimum oal I call them good. Than go to the range.

 

[LiveLife]

Potatohead, yes - just dropping the resized cases into the chamber of the barrel. If the case base was overly bulged that was not fully resized by the resizing die, the resized case won't drop in freely with a "plonk".

vongh, yes that would be the normal barrel drop test for the finished rounds. Checking of the resized cases before reloading is to cull out overly bulged cases that weren't fully resized by the resizing die.

For range practice/plinking loads, I do not check the resized cases first. For load development and match loads that must function, I use resized cases that were chamber checked first.