Correct bell and crimp

[johnandersonoutdoors]

Hey guys,

Loading 9mm here and been at it for about 6 to 8 months now. I have been loading on a single stage redding and seem to be producing fairly good ammo.

My question has to do with case length and getting proper bell and/or crimp. I am mostly reloading 9mm. Manual shows trim to length of .744 and max length of .754. Now I know everyone says they don't trim pistol brass but how can you get consistent ammo if you don't?

My current routine involves measuring clean, resized 9mm brass into two buckets. One bucket holds 9mm brass that is .744 to .749 and the second bucket gets brass that is .750 to .754. Most of the brass measures in the .750 to .754 range so I have setup my dies and been loading it. The cases that fall in the shorter part of the spectrum are collecting dust at the moment.

If I were to take a short case, say .744 and attempt to reload it I run into problems. Based on die setup it won't get enough bell to set the bullet on top. I feel like if I change my the setup of my dies to be ideal for cases in the lower spectrum then I will have the reverse problem. Longer cases would be belled too much.

But everyone says they don't trim pistol brass. Literally every single progressive press youtube video the guy says he just throws everything in there and goes to town. Same with the threads on reloading sites. How do you avoid the consistency problem with brass can vary from .744 to .754? Do you setup your dies to bell the shorter cases the right amount and live with the overbelling on the longer cases? Sames goes for crimp right? If you setup dies to for best crimp on shorter cases then longer ones get too much?

 

[gamestalker]

I trim all my brass, pistol and other wise. The extra time I use trimming assures me of round to round consistency in every aspect of function, in my opinion. Many say that pistol brass won't grow beyond SAAMI max., I disagree because I see pistol brass exceeding max with every new batch of brass I load.

GS

 

[moxie]

What you've read is correct. Don't bother trimming cases other than .357 or .44 Mag. or longer. Waste of time.

Just bell enough to start the bullet in the case. You can follow the bullet and case up into the seater die with your fingers if needed.

Remember that you don't really crimp these cases per se. You just want to remove enough belling so that the round will chamber properly. Do the "plunk" test to confirm that.

Crimping is only needed on heavy revolver rounds where "bullet jump" can be a problem.

 

[the count]

OK, reloading is a fun hobby. If you are having fun trimming pistol ammo, then go ahead I have pistol ammo (mainly 9mm) that I have reloaded 10 or more times without trimming. Note, straight walled pistol ammo is not like bottle necked rifle ammo. Just bell enough that the bullet has something to hold on before you seat it. No need to over think this either. I can highly recommend the Lee Factory Crimp Die. There is nothing wrong with making sure the bullet is nice and tight, especially if using fast semi auto guns.

 

[larryh1108]

I'd have a separate expander die for the shorter cases. Once I have it set where it works perfectly, I don't want to move it. Having 2 dies will solve that. Like others have said, you aren't crimping, you are just removing the bell so length shouldn't matter at that point. Set it for the shorter cases and you're good to go.

 

[tightgroup tiger]

If I were to take a short case, say .744 and attempt to reload it I run into problems

Wait until you get brass that mics at .730 and see how that goes.

You don't need to trim 9mm brass, but if you are trying to load the minimum length of 9mm shells that you will encounter, your dies won't do it.

I have encountered 9mm brass as short as .730 and I'm here to tell you that you can't load them without changing your die settings. Your better off picking them out.

Sammi specs for 9mm is .744-.754 and even .755 will work. You don't need to trim them. In my experience you will never find anything over .755 and they will work just fine. I load 9mm 2k at a time and set my dies for .742 to .748 in case length. I measure all my 9mm brass and anything over .748 goes into a separate container for match grade brass. Lately I don't get many of those.

The meat and potatoes of the brass you will get will be between .742 and .748. They are what you want to set your dies for. 95% of the brass you get weather range brass or once fired brass will fall into this category. That's only .006" difference. Your dies will work this brass very well without any problem what so ever. Any thing less than .742 I throw into a separate bin for short brass.

I'm not telling you that the short brass (.741 and less) is no good. I telling your that .742 and longer will never give you a problem with loading or with accuracy.

Gamestalker is right that Sammi specs are there for a reason. Companies used to adhere to these specs but not anymore.
Don't EVEN try to tell me that brass that mics in the .730s in a 9mm will be accurate.

I shoot for pure accuracy, most people don't. Most people don't think 9mm is capable of supreme accuracy. It is but you have to work for it. Like any other caliber.

It mostly depends on why you shoot your 9mm, for fun or for accuracy. I shoot for accuracy only, so the other posters here are correct in saying that any 9mm brass will function. It does function but it isn't any fun to load. When I have to run my LNL-AP to catch up with a deficit of 2 -4k, I want that press to run. With the brass I use, it always does without a problem, thousands at a time. If I had to blindly load all range brass with one die setting and put up with all the flyers that goes with it, I would probably just start buying factory loads again and put up with the inconsistent powder charges that goes with it.

Bang, Bang, bang, Bang. No thanks.

 

[Conservidave]

since you're using a single stage set up you could always set your crimp die a little deep and use "feel" to gauge the amount of crimp with out a cam-over on the press. Of course this is a separate step in the process that's going to slow things down but i've done it with pretty consistent results once you get the hang of it. YMMV

Dave,

 

[1SOW]

But everyone says they don't trim pistol brass. Literally every single progressive press youtube video the guy says he just throws everything in there and goes to town. Same with the threads on reloading sites. How do you avoid the consistency problem with brass can vary from .744 to .754? Do you setup your dies to bell the shorter cases the right amount and live with the overbelling on the longer cases? Sames goes for crimp right? If you setup dies to for best crimp on shorter cases then longer ones get too much?

I load and shoot a lot of 9x19.
JMO: I don't trim any 9x19 cases.
1. For mid-range+/- loads, shooting at the typical 25yds or less, the trimming does nothing significant over a chrono.
2. For High end/S.D.-type loads, case length can have some affect. I shoot a slightly compressed powder load for my 1200 fps SD loads.
I sort cases into "LONG" and "SHORT", and use the "LONG" cases for my hot loads. This gets good results over the chrono and good shooting consistency.

re Belling & Taper Crimp: Most of my shooting is for competition and practice with low mid-range loads at 1040-1050 with 124/125gr bullets. I sort cases by headstamp for loading consistency. That's it.
1. I set the belling at the minimum for the shorter cases IF belling is necessary. Some jacketted/plated bullets have a rounded/bevelled base that will slide right in a sized case without belling.
2. The taper crimps only change maybe .0015 with same headstamp cases with varying lengths. Set to .3785-ish for the shorter cases, the tapercrimps are all in the good-to-go range from .377 to .3785 .

Again, anything inside 25-30 yards, with loads OTHER than at maximum or minimum, nothing significant is gained by 9x19 case-sizing. Verified with a chrono and around 60K 9mm reloads fired.
This is just MY findings. Yours may be different.

 

[johnandersonoutdoors]

Thank you everyone. Great responses.

I trim all my brass, pistol and other wise. The extra time I use trimming assures me of round to round consistency in every aspect of function, in my opinion. Many say that pistol brass won't grow beyond SAAMI max., I disagree because I see pistol brass exceeding max with every new batch of brass I load.

What is your preferred trim to length for 9mm? What tool do you use?

Just bell enough to start the bullet in the case. You can follow the bullet and case up into the seater die with your fingers if needed.

So if you were loading 9mm would you set your dies for belling and crimping in the middle of spectrum, say using .749", and then you know some cases will bell less or more depending on their length?

Sammi specs for 9mm is .744-.754 and even .755 will work. You don't need to trim them. In my experience you will never find anything over .755 and they will work just fine. I load 9mm 2k at a time and set my dies for .742 to .748 in case length. I measure all my 9mm brass and anything over .748 goes into a separate container for match grade brass. Lately I don't get many of those.

Tightgroup, I started loading 1000 sorted F.C. that all measured .750 to .754. So I guess I set my dies for that and then noticed trouble seating when a short case, say .744, would come through because it wasn't belled enough. I am moving to a progressive

I have since added a ton of mixed brass and I continue to measure. I must say that my 9mm brass is longer on average. 80% of it is between .750 and .754 and if I include .748 and .749 then it is probably 90%. A few have measured .756 greater and a few have measured below .744.

So I am guess that means I should set my dies for .749 to .751 or something and be done with it?

re Belling & Taper Crimp: Most of my shooting is for competition and practice with low mid-range loads at 1040-1050 with 124/125gr bullets. I sort cases by headstamp for loading consistency. That's it.
1. I set the belling at the minimum for the shorter cases IF belling is necessary. Some jacketted/plated bullets have a rounded/bevelled base that will slide right in a sized case without belling.
2. The taper crimps only change maybe .0015 with same headstamp cases with varying lengths. Set to .3785-ish for the shorter cases, the tapercrimps are all in the good-to-go range from .377 to .3785 .

I am getting what you are saying. This is a thread with good responses I think. I have never wanted to sort via headstamp, but I do measure the cases. I guess it really comes down to one or the other in order to try to make sure there is consistency with our ammo, do you guys think?