Loading a 40 cal S&W with Hodgsons HP38 and CFE

[conkey]

Loading for a 40 cal S&W. I'm trying out Hodgsons HP38 and CFE with a 175g cast SWC. Has anybody found an accurate load for either powder? I tried a few different loads for each, but haven't found a load with a good grouping or a load that doesn't cause tumbling. Thanks

 

[murf]

tumbling is usually a "bullet fit" problem.

murf

 

[conkey]

I've used 231 and unique powders and never had a tumbling or accuracy problems before. Only with Hodgsons HP38 and CFE this occurs. The bullet die has never been changed and seating has always been the same. So why the tumble with this powder? Could it be a under load or a over load? Getting about 90% of the rounds tumbling. Do you have a load you have used Murf for these powders for this calibre and bullet weight? Thanks for the input.

 

[ATLDave]

Huh, as murf says, tumbling is usually related to bullet size v. barrel or twist rate being insufficient to stabilize or the like. Have you tried loading a decent number of that same batch of bullets over one of your known-good powders?

If so, then one guess might be that the bullets are slightly undersized, but your other loads are generating sufficient peak pressures to obdurate/"bump up" the bullet to fit the rifling. Maybe your HP38 and CFE loads aren't doing that?

 

[conkey]

Thanks a lot Dave that helped me a lot. I thought Murf meant the bullet sitting in the brass when he said bullet fit. Going to try slugging out the barrel and a few different things. Still looking for some loads for that powder that people have been successful with.

 

[ATLDave]

Oh, [forehead smack.] You know what else can cause tumbling? When the lands and grooves are all badly leaded up and the bullet isn't engaging the rifling! If you haven't changed bullets themselves, my #1 hypothesis is that, somewhere along the line, you got your barrel leaded to heck and back, and now probably nothing will stabilize! Any chance of that?

 

[conkey]

Never thought of that. I can't see it been to bad though but Ill give the barrel a good cleaning just to be sure.

 

[ATLDave]

Perhaps (and I'm conjecturing wildly here) the CFE powder contributed to leading. It's a double-base powder (stereotypically means hotter temps) with a mid-slow burn rate (slower than your other powders according to Hodgdon's chart). And we know it has some sort of anti-fouling compound in it that is supposed to bond with copper to make a softer amalgam that is easy to move. And since you're working up new loads, you might have started down low. So maybe what happened was the pressure didn't peak fast enough to obdurate the bullet; some of the hot gasses (with mystery ingredient) leaked by the base of the bullet in the barrel; and you got leading. After a few rounds, the lands can't get a grip, and the bullets go sliding out the barrel with little or no spin, and you get keyholing.

Plausible?

 

[conkey]

Thanks a bunch Dave. Sounds exactly like what happened. I did check the barrel and there is excessive leading and Im guessing it was the CFE powder! Even with all the research I cant find very much on the 175g with the HP38 and CFE.

 

[Phlier]

Hmmm. I've shot quite a bit of lead with CFE, and never had it lead up a barrel. BTW, you said you've used w231 and hp-38, but only had the accuracy problem with hp-38 and CFE.... W231 and hp-38 are the same powder.

 

[popper]

231 & hp38 are the same. Cfe takes about 1/2 gr. More for same fps and is mode to deco paper barrels. I find it's just a bit snappier in recoil than 231.