Loading AK-47 powder into 30-06 case
- Thread starter Mustanir
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Marlin 45 carbine
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different bullet o.d. and the X39 powder is faster than any '06 powder I've ever used, I handload for both the '06 and X39 round - a different animule altogether. might try it in a .303 Brit or 7.7 Jap though. (I don't load those so someone that does may well say 'no way jose' on that.)
Sam1911
Moderator Emeritus
First problem is that the bullets are a different diameter. .308" for the .30-'06 and more like .311" for the 7.62x39. You'll be stuffing a bullet that's too large down the bore of a rifle. How much difference will 0.03" make? Enough that I wouldn't do it.
Second, and much more important, the powder in the x39 cartridges is going to be an unknown. Without extensive scientific testing (or load data from the factory making the powder) you can't load it safely. By the time you fill the much larger '06 case you'll probably have created a massively over-pressure charge that will blow the gun up.
If you look through the data from a powder manufacturer's site like www.hodgdon.com you'll see that some powders that can be used in 7.62x39mm can also be used to make a workable .30-'06 load. And some can't.
But you won't even know whether the powder in your x39 cartridges would be appropriate or won't, and certainly won't know how much to use.
Please be safe and find a real source for components so you don't destroy your rifle and hurt yourself.
Second, and much more important, the powder in the x39 cartridges is going to be an unknown. Without extensive scientific testing (or load data from the factory making the powder) you can't load it safely. By the time you fill the much larger '06 case you'll probably have created a massively over-pressure charge that will blow the gun up.
If you look through the data from a powder manufacturer's site like www.hodgdon.com you'll see that some powders that can be used in 7.62x39mm can also be used to make a workable .30-'06 load. And some can't.
But you won't even know whether the powder in your x39 cartridges would be appropriate or won't, and certainly won't know how much to use.
Please be safe and find a real source for components so you don't destroy your rifle and hurt yourself.
Thanks M 45 C, Sam for your valuable inputs,, I will try to bring .311 to .308 by pushing them through .308 cutting hole , I plan to design it.
As for powder I have little options, would like to use chronograph with lighter loads then gradually moving towards 3,000 fps. I hope this may work.
30-06 is a slow burning powder while x39 is fast,, CAN I MAKE A HOME GROWN RECIPE BY MIXING SOME PROPORTIONS EACH ???????
As for powder I have little options, would like to use chronograph with lighter loads then gradually moving towards 3,000 fps. I hope this may work.
30-06 is a slow burning powder while x39 is fast,, CAN I MAKE A HOME GROWN RECIPE BY MIXING SOME PROPORTIONS EACH ???????
MachIVshooter
Member
Swaging bullets can be done, but you need to do some research, rather than just drilling a hole in a piece of steel.
Your velocities will tell you nothing of internal pressures, which could exceed safe levels very easily. Unless you can find out exactly what the powder is, don't do this. If you are trying to save such a pittance on ammo, I think it's safe to assume you don't have a strain gauge.
NO! Duplex loads have never been a good idea with smokeless powders, and have left many guns in pieces. It's not the same thing as diluting chemicals; The two powders don't mix at a chemical level to develop a median burn rate. They're still two different powders.
You're playing with tens of thousands of pounds per square inch of pressure in a steel tube, right in front of your face. Just get the right stuff. In the end, it's more economical. Hospital stays are far more expensive than ammunition.
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Thanks M 45 C, Sam for your valuable inputs,, I will try to bring .311 to .308 by pushing them through .308 cutting hole , I plan to design it.
As for powder I have little options, would like to use chronograph with lighter loads then gradually moving towards 3,000 fps. I hope this may work.
30-06 is a slow burning powder while x39 is fast,, CAN I MAKE A HOME GROWN RECIPE BY MIXING SOME PROPORTIONS EACH ???????
Oh God, are you trying to become a news story? Please, please, please go buy yourself a book on reloading and find out why on so many levels you are making BIG mistakes. Are you on some kind of deserted island out in the Pacific with only cases of AK ammo to work with? You need to do some reading first.
Here, buy this copy of Dean Grennell's ABC's of reloading
http://www.amazon.com/ABCs-Reloadin...r_1_17?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1272312655&sr=1-17
It's only 7.35$ plus shipping. Dean will go into great detail as to why your ideas will result in permanent damage.
Next, buy yourself a 1lb can of IMR4895, or WIN760, or RL-19 to load into your .30-06 cases. Maybe you can use a load that Dean cooked up. It's only going to cost you 25$.
You will not get good results drawing .311 bullets down to .308. The brass jacket is "springy" while the lead core is not (that is, if your bullets even have a lead core). Once the bullets are pushed through a draw die, the cores with be loose inside the jackets because the brass is more compressable than lead it. BAD for accuracy.
As for powder I have little options, would like to use chronograph with lighter loads then gradually moving towards 3,000 fps. I hope this may work.
30-06 is a slow burning powder while x39 is fast,, CAN I MAKE A HOME GROWN RECIPE BY MIXING SOME PROPORTIONS EACH ???????
Oh God, are you trying to become a news story? Please, please, please go buy yourself a book on reloading and find out why on so many levels you are making BIG mistakes. Are you on some kind of deserted island out in the Pacific with only cases of AK ammo to work with? You need to do some reading first.
Here, buy this copy of Dean Grennell's ABC's of reloading
http://www.amazon.com/ABCs-Reloadin...r_1_17?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1272312655&sr=1-17
It's only 7.35$ plus shipping. Dean will go into great detail as to why your ideas will result in permanent damage.
Next, buy yourself a 1lb can of IMR4895, or WIN760, or RL-19 to load into your .30-06 cases. Maybe you can use a load that Dean cooked up. It's only going to cost you 25$.
You will not get good results drawing .311 bullets down to .308. The brass jacket is "springy" while the lead core is not (that is, if your bullets even have a lead core). Once the bullets are pushed through a draw die, the cores with be loose inside the jackets because the brass is more compressable than lead it. BAD for accuracy.
Mustanir is from a country on the other side of the world. He has very little access to published manuals. He has very little access to equipment and components. He has a strong desire to succeed in a skill that you and I take for granted.
Once in a while, he posts here on THR to find out if he can discover some innovative way of using the few components available in his country. Most of it is military surplus in very poor condition. But that's all he has available. Without a massive commercial industry and retail distribution network behind him, he's trying to be self reliant. Bless him for trying. To get there safely, he needs the benefit of our experience, expertise, wisdom and guidance.
He cannot run down to the story and get commercial stuff like you and me.
Mustanir: There are over a thousand different arsenals loading 7.62x39. And the arsenals that load ammo like 7.62x39 do not use the same powder all the time. Unfortunately, you have no idea what powder is in those cartridges. It would be extremely dangerous to mix any powders together. Avoid that at all costs. It may be possible to experiment with that powder in .30-06 cartridges, but it is extremely difficult to know when your experiments are damaging your rifle. This is one you may leave behind for another day. If you find any old .30-06 or 308 (7.62 Nato) cartridges, those will probably contain a more useful powder.
Once in a while, he posts here on THR to find out if he can discover some innovative way of using the few components available in his country. Most of it is military surplus in very poor condition. But that's all he has available. Without a massive commercial industry and retail distribution network behind him, he's trying to be self reliant. Bless him for trying. To get there safely, he needs the benefit of our experience, expertise, wisdom and guidance.
He cannot run down to the story and get commercial stuff like you and me.
Mustanir: There are over a thousand different arsenals loading 7.62x39. And the arsenals that load ammo like 7.62x39 do not use the same powder all the time. Unfortunately, you have no idea what powder is in those cartridges. It would be extremely dangerous to mix any powders together. Avoid that at all costs. It may be possible to experiment with that powder in .30-06 cartridges, but it is extremely difficult to know when your experiments are damaging your rifle. This is one you may leave behind for another day. If you find any old .30-06 or 308 (7.62 Nato) cartridges, those will probably contain a more useful powder.
Marlin 45 carbine
Member
if the OP can find any 7.62X54R (should be common in Asia) then pull down for the powder he MAY be OK but then again comeing up with the right o.d. slug is a problem, if supplys are so difficult to procure there where is he getting primers for the '06 cases?
heck he would be better off just buying a Mosin? right much same thing as an '06.
heck he would be better off just buying a Mosin? right much same thing as an '06.
MachIVshooter
Member
Well, there are ways. I have abox of primers I reconstituted with strike-anywhere match heads (perchlorate) just to see if it works. It does. I've fired live 9mm full-power ammo with them. You can do 100 primers for a buck. Of course, it takes about 4 hours to make 100, and a few are gonna pop while you're tamping the perchlorate or seating the anvils. It also takes 3-4 match tips per primer. Very painstaking process.
That would be a better idea, and since most x54 has mild steel core bullets, they'd probably swage better. Of course, it'd probably be easier to just pick uo a Mosin to shoot the stuff with.
Agree.
I think that is the best route. While I have never loaded for the AK47, the powder used are medium burn rate. http://www.reloadammo.com/762rload.htm You would have to use powders from the same lot of AK47 ammo, and you would have to start with light charges and be very careful about watching for pierced primers, leaking primers, and in a bolt rifle, sticky extraction.
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The first thing I would check is internal case neck expansion on the 30-06 cases. If the AK47 bullets drop right into the case neck of a fired 30-06, then these over sized bullets can be used. If the AK47 bullets are tight, or a push fit, the use of overdiameter bullets will create a bore obstruction.
It is entirely possible to shoot slightly larger bullets down a smaller bore as long as the case neck is not pinched. Cast bullet shooters do it all the time, and I have shot 7.62 X 54R surplus down Finnish barrels that were 308.
Incidentally my Ruger M77 has an unusually large case neck diameter.
The absolute worst account that I read of someone shooting overdiameter bullets was of a gunplumer who rechambered a 6.5 Arisaka to 30-06. This was recorded in a 1950's American Rifleman magazine. The owner reground the pilot of the reamer, so it would fit into the 6.5 bore, than cut a 30-06 chamber. The owner shot a deer, but took it to a real gunsmith because the rifle kicked too much.
The gunsmith then sent the rifle to the NRA who test fired it. The 30-06 bullets were all swaged down to 6.5 diameter in the barrel. The most remarkable thing about this was the action held up. The Arisaka provided an unusual amount of case support and the Arisaka action is the strongest action ever installed on a military bolt rifle. A lesser action with less case support, weaker brass, and pinched bullets, would probably have blown the action and the owner to kingdom come.
Everything I am describing is of increased risk compared to the best practices of using known powders and known bullets. Because I have access to good components I will not try ersatz reloading practices.
Ants read me correct,, mine is a strange country with all the restrictions on legal gun owners,, out laws are rampant with little or no obstruction. Any way x54R can be procured as well but these look too old thats why I thought the powder may be wacky, but I guess if agreed by the experts that it has a better powder than x39, I will give it a try. I may someday tell you guys that how I managed to copy an RCBS machine and dies and everything I got on my table while working on my Ph.D thesis in socio-linguistics.
Thanks for being so helpful.
Thanks for being so helpful.
Cosmoline
Member
Reusing or even swaging bullets? Sure, fine. People reuse pulled x39 bullets all the time, and I'm sure they could be swaged down to .308" with the right equipment.
Reusing surplus ball powder? NO! NEVER! Throw it away. Handloading is not the place for question marks, and by dumping unknown powder into a new cartridge you are putting a huge question mark on the load. Age of the powder is not relevant. It's the fact that you just don't know what it is.
Reusing surplus ball powder? NO! NEVER! Throw it away. Handloading is not the place for question marks, and by dumping unknown powder into a new cartridge you are putting a huge question mark on the load. Age of the powder is not relevant. It's the fact that you just don't know what it is.
The Bushmaster
Member
Ka-boom!!!
ranger335v
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"CAN I MAKE A HOME GROWN RECIPE BY MIXING SOME PROPORTIONS EACH ???????"
"NO! Duplex loads have never been a good idea with smokeless powders,.."
Correct in application but "mixed" powders aren't properly labled "duplex", that's a whole 'nother process. And, done either way, it's not a good idea.
"NO! Duplex loads have never been a good idea with smokeless powders,.."
Correct in application but "mixed" powders aren't properly labled "duplex", that's a whole 'nother process. And, done either way, it's not a good idea.
Sport45
Member
Don't mix the powders from pulled ammo unless you are absolutely sure the ammo all cam from the same lot. I can't advise whether or not the powder would be appropriate for loading in a .30-06, but as has been mentioned it will probably be too fast.
As for the bullets I would not be afraid to use AK bullets in the '06. I've put many of the 123gr AK bullets through my M1 as "plinker" rounds loaded with a minimum charge of H4320 or H4895. Midway used to sell those bullets pretty cheap.
As for the bullets I would not be afraid to use AK bullets in the '06. I've put many of the 123gr AK bullets through my M1 as "plinker" rounds loaded with a minimum charge of H4320 or H4895. Midway used to sell those bullets pretty cheap.
MachIVshooter
Member
Remember, most of the x54 and much of the x39 ammo out there is steel core; they won't squish into the smaller bore as easily as a lead core bullet will.
Marlin 45 carbine
Member
its a lead core with a copper-washed soft steel jacket. some of the chi-com (banned by clinton) had tungsten steel inserts.
Remo-99
Member
The really cheap 7.62x39 ammo came as 1440 rounds packed sardine cans from china, produced in the 60's and 70's(swapped out of commie allied military stores for fresher stuff).
It featured copperwashed steel case, corrosive berdan primers, copperwashed mild steel jacketed and hardened steel core bullets (with a slither of lead between the core and jacket).
Clinton may have stopped the importation of it into the US, but other countries with lesser regulations are proberbly still getting that stuff.
It featured copperwashed steel case, corrosive berdan primers, copperwashed mild steel jacketed and hardened steel core bullets (with a slither of lead between the core and jacket).
Clinton may have stopped the importation of it into the US, but other countries with lesser regulations are proberbly still getting that stuff.
I to would not use an unknown powder. I would consider black powder before surplus unknown powder. However, I would not be to concerned over the .308 vs .311 issue. My .32ACP chamber insert for my .30-06 manages to push the diminutive .311 .32ACP down the barrel with no problems.
dogrunner
Member
Mustinir: Most strongly recommend that you go to Castboolits.com. That site has the most knowlegable reloading bunch I have ever had the pleasure of reading.
Most certainly someone there will be able to provide you with some workable options...
Really like to see a photo of and description regarding your RCBS press and die takeoff.
Most certainly someone there will be able to provide you with some workable options...
Really like to see a photo of and description regarding your RCBS press and die takeoff.
Better get an AK or SKS. You will enjoy it.
Sam1911
Moderator Emeritus
You need 300 m hunting accuracy and you're planning to use unknown, old, reclaimed powder and a pulled 123 gr. military surplus bullet of unknown construction and generally poor consistancy, which has been swaged to a smaller diameter?
I cannot forsee you achieving your accuracy goals in that way. It would be a very interesting experiment -- if you can figure out how to do it safely -- but I wouldn't set my hopes very high.
Of course, it goes almost without saying that a 123 gr. FMJ bullet, again of unknown construction (probably at least partially steel cored) will not make a very satisfactory hunting bullet.
I cannot forsee you achieving your accuracy goals in that way. It would be a very interesting experiment -- if you can figure out how to do it safely -- but I wouldn't set my hopes very high.
Of course, it goes almost without saying that a 123 gr. FMJ bullet, again of unknown construction (probably at least partially steel cored) will not make a very satisfactory hunting bullet.
Tons of opportunities all around you,, a barrage of sales teams working to sell all state of art technologies, works fine over there but we have very few or no opportunities at all,, whatever here is, too expensive to reach. Like a friend bought a Remington 721 in 30-06 for $2000. I hope you might have got the whole scenario. just paint other aspects and multiply with the figure I gave here.
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