Loading cast bullets in .308

[armoredman]

Just tossing the idea around. I can't find a bullet mold to save my life in .309, but I have the 160gr Lee 7.62x39 mold in .312 I can size to .309 - I found the sizer online at least. Have the old .308 gas checks that worked on the .311 sized projos, so i guess that will be OK. I see WILDLY different loads bandied about, including one guy who was talking about using Unique, (!) in his .308 cast loads. Wild.
Been casting for about a decade, been loading about 15 years, not near as much as some here, so looking for words of wisdom. Incidentally, loads would be used in a bolt action rifle, unlikely they would be fired in any semi auto form yet.
I was also wondering if the gurus here could see major issues trying to size my .314 bullets down to ,309, and whether a 129 grain slug might do well powder coated in .308...
Thank you for your replies, much appreciated.

 

[Hooda Thunkit]

Were I to size from .314 to .309, I would take 2 steps. And, I would lube first.

Also, FWIW, many consider 10gr of Unique to be as close to a universal cast rifle load as there is.

I shoot 10-12 grains Unique in a .30-06 and several 7.62x54r Mosins.

 

[LNK]

Just tossing the idea around. I can't find a bullet mold to save my life in .309, but I have the 160gr Lee 7.62x39 mold in .312 I can size to .309 - I found the sizer online at least. Have the old .308 gas checks that worked on the .311 sized projos, so i guess that will be OK. I see WILDLY different loads bandied about, including one guy who was talking about using Unique, (!) in his .308 cast loads. Wild.
Been casting for about a decade, been loading about 15 years, not near as much as some here, so looking for words of wisdom. Incidentally, loads would be used in a bolt action rifle, unlikely they would be fired in any semi auto form yet.
I was also wondering if the gurus here could see major issues trying to size my .314 bullets down to ,309, and whether a 129 grain slug might do well powder coated in .308...
Thank you for your replies, much appreciated.

I powder coat lee bore rider bullets in my .308 bolt rifle. I use 13 grains of red dot. If you are going to load like this, make the flash hole larger, I don't remember what size. Google ""Ed Harris - cat sneeze loads". The drilling the flash hole larger prevents shoulder setback.

 

[PapaG]

I powder coat lee bore rider bullets in my .308 bolt rifle. I use 13 grains of red dot. If you are going to load like this, make the flash hole larger, I don't remember what size. Google ""Ed Harris - cat sneeze loads". The drilling the flash hole larger prevents shoulder setback.

If you do this, be sure to mark the cases so as not to load full charge loads. I use red nail polish in the headstamp.

 

[edwardware]

The drilling the flash hole larger prevents shoulder setback.

Drilling the flash hole out does nothing to prevent shoulder setback. . . It does effectively prevent the primer from backing out of the pocket, and is SOP for blank-level (very low pressure) loads for this reason.

When you drill, measure a primer anvil, and drill just small enough that the anvil feet still ride the ledge.

 

[rsrocket1]

I don't do anything different whether loading 6.5g Red Dot for subsonic loads with the Lee C309-200R or 33g RX7 with the Lee C309-170F at close to 2400 fps. I have the 113, 170 and 200g 309 dual cavity Lee molds. I also have a C312-185-R mold that I beagled up to 315 and size down to 314 for my Mosin Nagant 91/30. All I can say is experiment and try everything out. The good thing is that you get to shoot more while you learn something.

 

[Charlie98]

Without buggering up your .308 brass, why don't you just use a powder like IMR4198?

19.8grn IMR4198 and a commercially cast 170grn (.30-30) bullet gives me 1525fps out of my 22" Savage 99 lever-action, 24grn 1850 (with a gas check.) Even IMR3031... 28grn gives me 1425fps, and 32grn 2000fps.

If you have some IMR4227, 17.8grn will kick that same 170grn bullet out at 1425fps.

 

[LNK]

Without buggering up your .308 brass, why don't you just use a powder like IMR4198?

19.8grn IMR4198 and a commercially cast 170grn (.30-30) bullet gives me 1525fps out of my 22" Savage 99 lever-action, 24grn 1850 (with a gas check.) Even IMR3031... 28grn gives me 1425fps, and 32grn 2000fps.

If you have some IMR4227, 17.8grn will kick that same 170grn bullet out at 1425fps.

I won't answer for him, but I have so much 308 and lc 7.62x51 brass, modifying a couple hundred is no big deal. I file a groove across the headstamp to identify them.

 

[Bfh_auto]

Without buggering up your .308 brass, why don't you just use a powder like IMR4198?

19.8grn IMR4198 and a commercially cast 170grn (.30-30) bullet gives me 1525fps out of my 22" Savage 99 lever-action, 24grn 1850 (with a gas check.) Even IMR3031... 28grn gives me 1425fps, and 32grn 2000fps.

If you have some IMR4227, 17.8grn will kick that same 170grn bullet out at 1425fps.

I used IMR4227 with a 245 cast bullet. It was definitely a winner compared to the other powders I tried.
Like you. I didn't need to drill flash holes.

 

[LNK]

I used IMR4227 with a 245 cast bullet. It was definitely a winner compared to the other powders I tried.
Like you. I didn't need to drill flash holes.

I can not find it at the moment, and I may be wrong. But I(think) I read where shoulder setback was the reason. I may have wasted the effort, bit it didn't hurt it either.

As to why not use 4198, didn't have any when I started this cat sneeze loading, and red dot is much more economical. Why use double the powder charge if I don't have to?

 

[Charlie98]

I can not find it at the moment, and I may be wrong. But I(think) I read where shoulder setback was the reason. I may have wasted the effort, bit it didn't hurt it either.

As to why not use 4198, didn't have any when I started this cat sneeze loading, and red dot is much more economical. Why use double the powder charge if I don't have to?

No, I got you... use what you have a available. I’m not a big fan of fast(er) pistol powders in rifle cases, that’s just me.

 

[Bfh_auto]

I can not find it at the moment, and I may be wrong. But I(think) I read where shoulder setback was the reason. I may have wasted the effort, bit it didn't hurt it either.

As to why not use 4198, didn't have any when I started this cat sneeze loading, and red dot is much more economical. Why use double the powder charge if I don't have to?

Drilling is definitely called for in low charges of faster powders.
The primer charge and firing pin pressure will shove the case forwards essentially sizing it down. The pressure of the powder must be high enough to expand the case back to chamber dimensions.
I try to keep the pressure similar for each velocity I run.
If you match your bullet hardness to the pressure.
Then you can choose the correct powder for the velocity goal.

 

[forrest r]

Just tossing the idea around. I can't find a bullet mold to save my life in .309, but I have the 160gr Lee 7.62x39 mold in .312 I can size to .309 - I found the sizer online at least. Have the old .308 gas checks that worked on the .311 sized projos, so i guess that will be OK. I see WILDLY different loads bandied about, including one guy who was talking about using Unique, (!) in his .308 cast loads. Wild.
Been casting for about a decade, been loading about 15 years, not near as much as some here, so looking for words of wisdom. Incidentally, loads would be used in a bolt action rifle, unlikely they would be fired in any semi auto form yet.
I was also wondering if the gurus here could see major issues trying to size my .314 bullets down to ,309, and whether a 129 grain slug might do well powder coated in .308...
Thank you for your replies, much appreciated.

Why .309" bullets???

There's nothing wrong with that lee 160gr bullet. I use the lee 160gr tl bullet in the 308w's all the time sized to .311". I use traditional lube + a tumble lube on them along with powder coating them


The gas check shank diameter mandates if a gas check will work or not. A 30cal gc is a 30cal gc, doesn't matter if you put it on a .312" bullet or a .308" bullet.

I've shot countless 1000's of cast bullets in 30-06's and 308w's & never drilled out any primer holes. Uniform them yes, enlarge them, never found a need to.

Blammo ammo for the 308w, 8/9bhn range scrap lead no gas check needed & no problems with shoulder setback, cases in general or anything else. 10-shot group @ 50yds using 10gr of ww super handicap


10 shot group @ 50yd using 9gr of ww super handicap. pc'd bullet with no gc 8/9bhn range scrap


Same bullet, same load. This time they were traditionally lubed and had a gas check


Interesting that those 2 targets were shot using the same cast bullets cast at the same time. The only difference is 1 was pc'd/no gas check. The other was traditionally lubed and had a gas check. The pc'd bullet had higher velocities then their traditionally lubed counterpart with a gc.

You want accuracy??? Use that lee 160gr bullet and 2400. Don't bother drilling out anything just do ladder tests and enjoy. 10-shot group @ 100yds MOA accuracy.


Got some H335 laying around??? 1 1/2" group 10-shot group @ 100yds doing 2670fps+ in a 308w


When using rifle powders I like to fillers like this.
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Fairfield-45-x-60-Poly-Fil-Extra-Loft-Batting-1-Each/17808678

Notice it says "extra lofting"

I typically cut it into 1/2" squares and the pull on that 1/2" square making it take up more space hence "lofting" it. The gives you full case capacity no matter what amount of powder your using. I do not use any fillers with fast burning pistol powders, no need. I do not use any fillers if I have over 80% case capacity with rifle powders.

Anyway no need to over think things. I'd start with .311" bullets and go from there. When you start sizing bullets down too much you start to change the centerline of the bullet compared to the base of that bullet. Then bad things start to happen. You can get away with it using pistol bullets and short range shots. The longer rifle bullets no so much, I never size them down over 2/1000th's. You can take the same bullets cast at the same time, same load, same rifle, same yada-yada-yada. Size some of the bullets down 2/1000th's and some 3/1000th's and do head to head accuracy testing. You'll find the bullets that have been sized the least will always be more accurate.

 

[armoredman]

And that is exactly what I was looking for, man on the street results, thank you. Not trying to over think, junior caster, only started 10 years or so, and the rule of thumb was one thou over, so i was hesitant to try something 3 thou over, but your experience helps a great deal, thank you. I have a tiny bit of both 2400 and H335 laying about to try as well. I powdercoat AND I still have a bunch of liquid alox I haven't managed to give away yet...I tried, I tried...

 

[FROGO207]

Alox works well if you don't have power or your coating oven is broken. Kinda like gravity still works when all your batteries are dead in your scales. Just sayin'.