Best cast bullet loads for .308

[Heir Kommt Die Sonne]

Hello,
I have casted some 165 grain bullets, .309 diameter and I want to know what to do with them. When I seat them into .308 cases, do I size them to .308 or leave them at .309? Also, what is the recommended IMR3031 load for bullets of this weight.

I havent ever used cast bullets for rifle cartridges before but now is the time I want to start doing it. With all the lubing and gas checks, it really makes a tight window of investment over whether or not it's more practical to buy copper coated bullets, or to put the investment in to use cast lead. Since I want my reloads to be cheaper, and plus to do it myself, it's about time I start using cast lead bullets.

 

[dannyd]

size them to .309 Don't have a load for 3031 I used Unique and they shot like a 22 Long Rifle. The Lyman Cast reloading manuals used to list a load with 3031.

 

[Heir Kommt Die Sonne]

I should also probably ask about 30-30, as I'm going to reload that too coming up. I was going to use Trailboss, as it seemed to be a good all-around powder but alot of people really like 3031, so hence why I picked it out . I'm going to use these same .309 bullets for use in 30-30.
That's one thing that's really handy about the .308 caliber in general, as the bullets are usable for a wide range of cartridges.

My procedure for loading cartridges is similar to my handgun one: Deprime, prime, expand mouth, charge and seat bullet, then crimp. I much prefer to do crimping as a final seperate step rather than seating and crimping at the same time. I think the seating/crimping dies are too complicated. Also I find depriming then full length sizing with a die with no decapping pin in it sizes much better than the decapping dies themselves do. Maybe I should invest in a universal decapper die.

 

[Bfh_auto]

What handgun powder do you have?
Also, what are you planning on using this load for?

 

[Heir Kommt Die Sonne]

My favorites are H110 for my magnum cartridges, and WSF Powder for more vanilla plinking loads. I have also used Blue Dot lately and it works pretty good. I use it for 357 sig and 44 magnum. I'd like to use the WSF powder for shotgun loading coming up too, as I have a shotgun loading press my Grandfather gave me.

The .308 loads I'm going to do are for a Weatherby Vanguard in .308, and a Ar-10 rifle. I want decent loads, not too light however probably not too heavy either. Just regular .308 loads

 

[Bfh_auto]

My favorites are H110 for my magnum cartridges, and WSF Powder for more vanilla plinking loads. I have also used Blue Dot lately and it works pretty good. I use it for 357 sig and 44 magnum. I'd like to use the WSF powder for shotgun loading coming up too, as I have a shotgun loading press my Grandfather gave me.

The .308 loads I'm going to do are for a Weatherby Vanguard in .308, and a Ar-10 rifle. I want decent loads, not too light however probably not too heavy either. Just regular .308 loads

The AR10 rules out what I was going to suggest.
For the 30-30 Lyman lists 22.5-28.5 IMR3031 for a 170 gr gas check.
For 308, 28.5-39.5 IMR3031 for a 170 gr gas check.

 

[243winxb]

I should also probably ask about 30-30

The 30-30 is a cartridge that can get very close to 170 gr jacketed bullets velocity using gas checked hard lead bullets of the same weight or heavier. Using a T/C Contender 10" barrel with IMR 4895 - 27.5 gr- 173 gr gas checked, gave 1500 fps. I didnt check velocity in the Win 94, but it should be higher with more barrel length. Use a Lyman "M" die to open the case mouth for bullet seating. Bullet diameter of .310" after sizing is what i used. If bullets drop undersize from the mold, add linotype. The antimony in the lynotype makes for a larger diameter bullet.

Using H4895 should be about the same? See Youth loads at Hodgdon.

The fast pistol powders were not accurate for me. Even tested them with a kapok* filler.

IMR 4895 needs no filers. The wrong filler can produce a ringed barrel.

 

[jmorris]

I use cast and coated 150’s for plinking, 11 grains of trailboss works for me.

 

[Texas10mm]

You should size to .310, but if they're dropping from the mold at .309 I'd have to guess you're using a Lee mold and a lead rich alloy.

 

[Heir Kommt Die Sonne]

Yes I have a Lee mold, and lead rich alloy . I also have a .312 diameter one I was going to use for .303 British. Seeing as most of you recommend .310 size, perhaps it's the .312 mold I should be using however it's a round nose tip and thus not suitable for 30-30 with a tube magazine, but it'll be good for .308.
Jmorris, what gun are you using your 11 grain Trailboss Load in ? What velocity does it give ?

 

[PapaG]

I had a 788 Rem in 308 and loaded many rounds using the old Lee "Target" model reloader which included a neck reamer and "precision" seating stem. I used the old Lyman 311291 sized to .309 with Hornady gas checks and 21 grains of IMR 4198. Many groups under 2" at 100 yards. Also used the .311316 which was made for the 30 carbine and a small amount of Unique but I don't remember how much.

 

[Ifishsum]

You don't want them smaller than .309....mine are from a Lee C309-170-F mold cast pretty much with straight wheel weights, they come out 180-185gr lubed and checked (sized in .309 push through). .30-30 is the only cartridge I've really done much loading with them so far but I use 25 to 26. gr IMR3031 for that, it's a pleasant load to shoot and plenty accurate at 75-100 yds in the Win94

 

[Charlie98]

I would leave them at .309" as well... that's a good size to start with. I load my commercial cast (either Montana or Laser Cast) 170grn bullets over IMR3031 or IMR4198 in both the .30-30 and .308 at around 1500-1700fps. In fact, I've used IMR4227 for some very good low velocity loads in both, as well. You'll have to decide what velocity you are looking for, and then there is plenty of data out there to get you started.

 

[jmorris]

Jmorris, what gun are you using your 11 grain Trailboss Load in ? What velocity does it give ?

A Remington 700 and around 1150fps.

 

[Curator]

Heir kommt die sonne: Loading cast bullets in high velocity rifle cartridges like .308 Winchester (7.62X51 NATO) and getting accuracy and performance is not as easy as simply substituting cast for jacketed bullets. It is really the PhD of cartridge reloading. A brief list of important details often glossed over or omitted by purveyors of reloading supplies includes: matching bullet alloy hardness (BHN) to chamber pressure, sizing bullets to chamber throat diameter (not groove diameter) selecting a powder that burns uniformly at reduced pressures, and matching bullet weight, design, and velocity to your gun's rifling twist. I suggest some basic research on the "castboolits" web site will reduce your frustration and disappointment with your initial experiments with cast bullet reloading.

 

[Heir Kommt Die Sonne]

Thank you Curator. I've been looking at using cast bullets a long time, and all the additional knowledge that goes into it is part of the reason I haven't done it sooner. However to get started is perhaps the most important step than never. I'll be starting out on 30-30 and .308. Over time I hope to cast bullets for all my rifles (expect for 7mm Remington)

 

[[email protected]]

Just to add a plus (1) on sizing to .310. The lee 312-155 sized to .310 works well in 308 win class of rifles, in my experience that is. Even the Lee 309-150fn for 30-30 will allow sizing to .310 with my alloy. Also wanted to mention that you will need a Lyman M style (or NOE) expander. They allow to expand the neck like the normal expander button in the resizing die, but they also have a stepped expander that expands the case mouth larger than bullet diameter to prevent the bullet from shaving. One honorable mention about the Lee reloading manual is there is data about matching bullet alloy with expected pressure.
Also noticed that you said "I have casted some 165 grain bullets, .309 diameter and I want to know what to do with them" regarding loading them in 308 win. And in a later post you said that you had a Lee mold and a 312 diameter mold. I not aware of a Lee 309-165 mold so I don't know if the nose profile is proper for 30-30.

 

[Charlie98]

Also wanted to mention that you will need a Lyman M style (or NOE) expander.

Good catch! The M-die (or equivalent) will make seating those cast bullets much easier.

 

[PapaG]

When dad and I started reloading in the fifties, we religiously followed Lyman's advice and sized 30 cal bullets to .311 and never got really good accuracy. A few years later, Ed Yard published some articles and I bought a .308 and .309 sizing die. With most loads you can't see any difference. I usually size .308 with the heavier bullets and .309 with the lighter ones. Found a couple old moulds at an estate sale a year or so ago and am going to run some slugs out and try them out. 30 cal, 120 and 140 grain pointed g.c. bullets. I'll start at .309.

 

[frankmako]

Slug your barrel to see what the size is. Then size your bullet one size bigger. That is the best way next to a chamber cast. For powder 5744, unique, buffalo rifle, and imr/h 4895 will work well for cast lead in 30-30 and 308. I am testing varget and precision rifle powders at this time in a 30-30 with 150gr plated.

 

[res45]

Hello,
I have casted some 165 grain bullets, .309 diameter and I want to know what to do with them. When I seat them into .308 cases, do I size them to .308 or leave them at .309? Also, what is the recommended IMR3031 load for bullets of this weight.

I havent ever used cast bullets for rifle cartridges before but now is the time I want to start doing it. With all the lubing and gas checks, it really makes a tight window of investment over whether or not it's more practical to buy copper coated bullets, or to put the investment in to use cast lead. Since I want my reloads to be cheaper, and plus to do it myself, it's about time I start using cast lead bullets.

If you don't already have one I would recommend the Lyman Cast Bullet Manual #4, the newer manual cover bullet molds made by several mfg. other than Lyman such as Lee,RCBS and SAECO. There is data in the manual for the Lee 150 gr. RNFP as well as two Lyman molds in the 170 to 173 gr. range with about 11 different powders you can use with that weight bullet that all have similar profiles. I would highly suggest not to get to excited by some of the high velocity loads listed as with the standard 1:10 twist bore that your best usable accuracy is going to be probably in the 1600 to 2K fps. range velocity wise before accuracy goes south.

It's a good idea to slug the bore so you have an idea of what dia. bullet you will need but personally I like my cast bullets as large as will easily chamber so they fill the throats, so my 30-30, 300 Sav. and 30-06 all get .310 to .311" dia. bullets while the Mosins in 54r and SKS rifles in 7.62 x 39 all get .314" dia. bullets. My Lee molds all drop fat bullets at just a little over .310" so they work fine for what I need especially if I powder coat , gas check and size to .310 or .311"

Beside the manual the Cast Boolits forum is a wealth of info on bullet casting and shooting along with all the other aspect that that entails here is a good articles that you will find of interest http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?13425-Cast-Bullet-Loads-for-Military-Rifles-Article I shoot lots of the 16.0 gr. 2400 loads in all my rifles except for the 7.62 x 39 as the Max. load for that case is 15.0 grs. but 14.5 does just as well so I don't push it.

Here is another site with lots of useful info as well.
http://www.lasc.us/CastBulletNotes.htm

Although my 300 Sav. is not a .308 it was the original parent case for the .308 and it shoots great with cast lead as do all my rifles. Here are a couple of 5 shots groups.



An the Mosin.