Loading for carbine style rifles

[Deadnotsleeping]

Hello,
Would it be safe and or advantageous to load a cartidge such as .45 Colt with a slower burning rifle powder to take advantage of the much longer barrel of a carbine style rifle?
Thanks

 

[USSR]

When you say "rifle powder", I hope you are talking about powders that were originally rifle powders, but are now commonly used in handgun loads. 2400 or 4227 loads will show a marked increase in velocity in a rifle as opposed to a revolver.

Don

 

[kcofohio]

There is some rifle data published for pistol calibers. I would search out those loads. I see them here and there in the compiled LoadbooksUSA. Lyman's reloading manual has some I believe.

They generally use the slower pistol and pistol magnum powders.

 

[Schwing]

My experience has been both yes and no. Pretty much universally, you will get higher velocities using slower powders in larger cases, up to a point. Then you will also see higher velocities in longer barrels, up to a point. Having said that, I have never noticed anything more than a 300 fps increase in speed from a snubbie up to a 16 inch barrel regardless of the powder.

For example, with max loads of something like unique, I would get about 1100fps from my 230 grain .44s out of my 7" revolver and about 1350fps out of my 16" rifle. (These are estimates since I don't have my data in front of me.)
If I switch to something like 2400, those numbers would jump to say 1300 to 1600fps respectively.

I would obviously get more velocity with the slower powder but the spread between a short and a longer barrel don't seem to change all that much in my experience regardless of the burn rate of the powder.

 

[jmorris]

I often use slower powders for pistol caliber carbines but they are only considered "slow" as far as pistol powders.

The problem is case volume, you can't get enough of a "slow" rifle powder into the case, to push a bullet as fast as a pistol powder.

 

[buck460XVR]

I often use slower powders for pistol caliber carbines but they are only considered "slow" as far as pistol powders.

The problem is case volume, you can't get enough of a "slow" rifle powder into the case, to push a bullet as fast as a pistol powder.

^^^This. You are still using the same cartridge, only using a different platform to shoot it outta. Even with the slowest slow handgun powders like IMR 4227, you are generally already close to or at case capacity at max loads. This is what makes them so safe....you can't get enough powder in the case to blow the gun up.

FME.....those handgun loads that shoot the best outta my revolvers, also shoot the best outta my handgun caliber carbines.

 

[rg1]

It's not worth the effort, shoot your standard 45 Colt loads especially if you have a pistol in that caliber. You'll gain very little even going with the slowest for 45 Colt pistol powders and rifle powders won't work at all. You will only gain a couple hundred fps in a carbine over a pistol barrel. Some try loading the lightest for caliber bullets and push them with the slowest for caliber pistol powders to gain a little more velocity. I don't think it is a good idea to have loads for a carbine rifle that may not be safe in your pistol. Everybody refers to the site "Ballistics by the Inch" to see real world velocities in different barrel lengths. http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/45colt.html.

 

[USSR]

Deadnotsleeping,

Why don't you tell us what carbine style rifle you are talking about?

Don

 

[Deadnotsleeping]

Deadnotsleeping,

Why don't you tell us what carbine style rifle you are talking about?

Don

Hey Don,
While my question has mostly been answered in my mind, and you've all been so helpful --thank you so much, by the way-- I was asking this question about a Winchester '92 16 in barreled rifle

Thanks again

 

[Mike Kerr]

Deadnotsleeping wrote "Hey Don,
While my question has mostly been answered in my mind, and you've all been so helpful --thank you so much, by the way-- I was asking this question about a Winchester '92 16 in barreled rifle
Thanks again"
------------------------------------
Glad we were helpful. Slow Rifle Powders did not work for me in 16" Trapper type carbines.

 

[USSR]

I was asking this question about a Winchester '92 16 in barreled rifle

Okay, the reason I asked was to determine what power level you could load to. The model 92 rifles have REALLY strong actions, so you can use Ruger-Only load data which will generate high velocities for you. Powders to use are: IMR4227, 2400, and W297/H110.

Don

 

[Deadnotsleeping]

Thanks again guys; my questionwas exhaustively, and thouroughly answered.

 

[oldpapps]

My answer is less of what you are asking.

We will say I/we/you have a pistol and a rifle that are chambered for the same round.

Will different powders work better in the pistol and rifle? Yes, most likely but not always.

Will a longer barrel benefit from slower powder burn rate? Again, yes but not always.

What to do? Load for the weapon, it is as simple as that.
But, I want to use the same loaded rounds in both. Then do so, but one will be less than optimal.
Either load separate, weapon specific, loadings for each weapon or pick the loading that works best with both, knowing that one of the two is getting the short end of the stick.

I have a Marlin Camp Gun in .45 ACP. I shoot lots of .45s... in pistols. I use the same loadings in the Marlin as my 1911s. The Marlin loses.

It is all a trade off in one way or another.

Pick you poison, so to speak and go with it.

 

[RealGun]

The advantage of the rifle's longer barrel is higher velocity than the revolver. You don't have to adjust the powder charge to get there. Changes in the charge will be proportional to both guns. Just stick with proven revolver loads from credentialed sources. The Hornady book, for example, lists the same loads for rifle and handgun in different sections of their book, yet the only difference is recharting the listed velocity. What shows for 850 fps for the revolver, for example, is listed under 1000 fps on the rifle page. Each velocity column for the revolver loads tables shows lower powder charges than for the same velocity in the rifle tables.

My purpose in having such a rifle is to share ammo. Otherwise, there are better specialty rifles to be carrying.

 

[345 DeSoto]

I use the same ammunition that I've reloaded for my 1911 in my Marlin Camp 45 and AR45. All 3 guns are right on the money. The reason I have a 1911/Camp 45/AR-45 is to be able to use the same ammunition in all. Regular US Army 1911 ammunition seemed to do the trick for me in my 1911 and M1A1 Thompson in Viet-Nam...

 

[345 DeSoto]

I use the same ammunition that I've reloaded for my 1911 in my Marlin Camp 45 and AR45. All 3 guns are right on the money. The reason I have a 1911/Camp 45/AR-45 is to be able to use the same ammunition in all. Regular US Army 1911 ammunition seemed to do the trick for me in my 1911 and M1A1 Thompson in Viet-Nam. Oh...to answer the OP's question, yes it would be safe, PROBABLY with no noticable advantage...

 

[buck460XVR]

But, I want to use the same loaded rounds in both. Then do so, but one will be less than optimal.

I have not found that to be true. In my revolvers and carbines, in both .357 and .44, the load that shoots very well in my revolvers also shoots very well in the same caliber carbines. While they may not be "optimal" in either for everything, they are as accurate and effective as I am with the platforms and trying to improve by "twinking" the loads for either/or has proved to be of little difference and not worth the effort or the bother. Same can be said for folks I know that use factory ammo for both platforms. Whether I hunt with either the revolvers or the carbines, the same ammo is on my belt and I feel confident that it will be accurate and effective. Other folks may have a different experience or their demands for accuracy are higher. But we are talking revolvers and handgun caliber carbines here.

 

[Sunray]

There are such things as .45 Colt rifle loads. The chances of finding a load that shoots well out of a rifle and a handgun are slim anyway.