Loading hunting ammo for Garand with Schuster adjustable plug

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wombat13

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Short version for anyone who doesn't want to read the several paragraphs below. I want to take my Garand hunting again and .30-06 ammo is nowhere to be found. I have plenty of 150 gr and 165 gr Nosler ballistic tips, so time to load. I'm trying to decide between H4895, IMR 4320, Superperformance and IMR 4350. I'm also wondering the best procedure for testing my handloads. I'm leaning toward using IMR 4320 as the powder, shooting test loads with the gas plug open, and then adjusting the gas plug and shooting groups to confirm accuracy of my best test load. I'm leaning toward IMR 4320 because I have several pounds, I am unlikely to use it for anything else, and it is the next fastest burning powder I have in stock (after H4895). My H4895 is useful in a wider variety of cartridges, so I'd rather not use it here.


Long version: Hodgdon lists Garand service rifle loads for 150 gr Nosler ballistic tips with Varget, BL-C(2), H4895, IMR 4064, IMR 4166, and IMR 4895. Unfortunately, H4895 is the only one I have in stock and the difference between Hodgdon's starting load and max load for the 150 gr Nosler is 0.1 grs (46.0 and 46.1)! They do not publish a load with 165 gr Nosler ballistic tips. Also, the velocities for their published service rifle loads with H4895 are unimpressive (2,810 fps) with the 150 and 2,676 with a 165 gr Sierra.

So, I guess I'm going to use the Schuster plug. I have two questions.

1. Which powder to use? In addition to H4895, I also have Superperformance and IMR 4320 which both are very good for .30-06. I also have a lot of IMR 4350. I could go with H4895, but the velocities aren't that great. Superperformance and 4320 offer higher velocities and I am unlikely to use them in any cartridge besides the .30-06 whereas H4895 and IMR 4350 are very useful in my other cartridges.

2. What procedure to use when testing groups. I see three ways to do it.
a. First, I could shoot my test loads checking for best group with the gas plug "open" so that the rifle operates like a bolt rifle. Then load more of the charge that produced the best group. Shoot several to adjust the gas plug so it cycles properly and then shoot groups to check the accuracy of that load. Downside to this method is the chance that my best load when the Garand is operating as a single shot may not produce the best groups when the rifle is shot as a semi-auto.
b. Load extra test loads of the heaviest charge I am going to test. Adjust the gas plug so that the rifle cycles with the heaviest charge and then shoot my test loads with the rifle operating as semi-auto. The advantage to this is that I will see how the "hot" loads group as semi-auto. The downside is that I expect at some point as I work my way to lower charge weights the rifle will no longer cycle properly and then I'll be back to working with the single shot.
c. Load extra test loads of the lightest charge I am going to test. Adjust the gas plug so that the rifle cycles with the lightest charge and then shoot my test loads with the rifle operating as semi-auto. This is safer in the sense that I would be shooting my lightest loads first and working up. The downside is that I will be putting progressively more pressure/velocity on the op-rod as I work my way up.
 
I read your post with some interest as I load for a couple of Garands without an adjustable gas plug and have always wondered how they work. But using reliable Garand loading data and powders have shot many 150 and 165 grain rounds with pretty good results. I can't help with the best way to adjust the plug without damaging the op-rod, and that's just one reason I don't own one.

I'd just sacrifice some of the 4895 and load some typical service rifle loads. Maybe 48 grs. for the 150's and 47 for the 165's. I've been using AMax's recently so the Ballistic Tips should function fine.
 
The Hodgdon published Garand service rifle loads indicate a starting load of 46.0 gr and a max load of 46.1 grains! That worries me. According to Hodgdon, there is no room for error with a 150 gr Nosler ballistic tip.

The normal procedure with the Schuster plug is to start with it fully open. The oprod will not cycle. You the screw the set screw in a little at a time firing one shot each time you turn the screw in a little. Eventually you will reach the point where the rifle functions properly. That’s where you stop.
 
Here is the easiest thing to do...

Put the original USGI gas cylinder lock screw back in.
Get the 4320 and find data for 150s and 165s (there is no need for "garand" data)

Work up with what you find. 4320 is great garand powder however it's now discontinued (last I heard) so work up garand loads with it and burn it up there.

You will find your sweets spot with both bullets in the high 40 grns area.
 
I use H4895 for M1 ammo but that's with the standard gas plug. All my other 30-06 loads are made with H4350. Its extremely accurate for me for hunting I would use a 165gr bullet. I charge between 57.0gr and 58.0gr of H4350. From memory I think that generates over 2800 fps, maybe more. IMO that is more than enough for hunting ammo. Then again, 2600/2700fps using H4895 will serve just as well without beating up your Garand. Again, just my opinion.
 
Your gas plug may make a difference, not familiar with how those affect powder selection/loads in the M1. What I do know, is that you have 2 suitable bullet weights and powders on hand even if you had the GI gas plug.

4895 is a pretty known quantity, so I won't elaborate there.

4320 is a fine powder in the Garand. I used to load it under the 168 HPBT (Hornady). I just threw the Garandstandard 46 grains and went with it. It is in the Goldilocks zone for the M1s gas system. No direct information on the velocity, but it was pretty close to predicted come-ups to 600 yards, so probably pretty close to book velocity as well.

I would avoid superformance, as the burning curve is a little "weird." You might be asking for trouble vs using one of the more known quantities you have on hand.
 
I've attached the Hodgdon Garand Service Rifle Load Data. They don't show anything for IMR 4320. Can any of you link to Garand load data with IMR 4320? Here is a link to the Hodgdon site with that data if you don't want to click on the attached pdf: https://hodgdon.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/m1-final-data.pdf
there is no need for "garand load data"

Use IMR 4320
Use your regular load books..
Use data for the 150 and 165s.

It's really that simple...
 
there is no need for "garand load data"

Use IMR 4320
Use your regular load books..
Use data for the 150 and 165s.

It's really that simple...
I don't think it's that simple. Random8 suggested the "Garand standard" 46 grains of IMR 4320 with a 165 gr bullet. I've read elsewhere that 46-47 grains with 165 gr bullet is a typical load range for the Garand. Yet Hodgdon's online data for .30-06 indicates a starting load of 48.0 grains and max of 51.2 grains of IMR 4320 with a 165 grain bullet.
 
Garand specific loads and ammo are just data and not the holy grail to keep a Garand running. I ran out of 4895 but have a closet full of Varget. Good accuracy with 150 gr pills, no adjustable gas plug and no bent op rods. YMMV so do some research for alternatives in these lean years.
 
I don't think it's that simple. Random8 suggested the "Garand standard" 46 grains of IMR 4320 with a 165 gr bullet. I've read elsewhere that 46-47 grains with 165 gr bullet is a typical load range for the Garand. Yet Hodgdon's online data for .30-06 indicates a starting load of 48.0 grains and max of 51.2 grains of IMR 4320 with a 165 grain bullet.
No..it's actually that simple.

Consult your load data for the bullet weight and 4320. Work up until desired accuracy/velocity is achieved.

150s should be going 2800ish at the muzzle.

165s should be going about 2750ish at the muzzle.

Load .. enjoy..
 
I used the Schuster plug in several garands and a tanker garand (308w) over the years. They are actually caveman simple to use & you really only need to focus on 2 things.

1st this is get the "accuracy thing" out of your head. Should be the furthest thing from your mind when using/testing non-garand loads.

2nd, turn the plug so that the rifle becomes a single shot. This is where you test for accuracy. Doesn't matter if your using a 1600fps/220gr bullet load or a 3300fps/11ogr bullet load. Once you've established an accurate load then using that load slowly turn/close the adjustable gas plug until the rifle functions properly. Garands are designed to run on 4000psi to 8000psi gas port pressure.

Using your adjustable plug this way you'll never have to worry about bent op rods or your rifle being out of time for the load your using.
 
I Garands are designed to run on 4000psi to 8000psi gas port pressure.

Using your adjustable plug this way you'll never have to worry about bent op rods or your rifle being out of time for the load your using.
This is false... garand port pressure is from 8000 to 11000psi depending on the load..this is with M2 ball.

Commercial ammo falls in this range as well.

Therefore... aftermarket parts aren't needed.
 
I used the Schuster plug in several garands and a tanker garand (308w) over the years. They are actually caveman simple to use & you really only need to focus on 2 things.

1st this is get the "accuracy thing" out of your head. Should be the furthest thing from your mind when using/testing non-garand loads.

2nd, turn the plug so that the rifle becomes a single shot. This is where you test for accuracy. Doesn't matter if your using a 1600fps/220gr bullet load or a 3300fps/11ogr bullet load. Once you've established an accurate load then using that load slowly turn/close the adjustable gas plug until the rifle functions properly. Garands are designed to run on 4000psi to 8000psi gas port pressure.

Using your adjustable plug this way you'll never have to worry about bent op rods or your rifle being out of time for the load your using.
Okay, thanks. Adjusting the plug after picking the accurate load as a single shot is what I thought I should do. It’s nice to know that the gas plug adjustment should not affect accuracy. I’ve used the adjustable plug before, but it was with factory ammo, so just adjust it and see how that ammo shoots.
 
This is false... garand port pressure is from 8000 to 11000psi depending on the load..this is with M2 ball.

Commercial ammo falls in this range as well.

Therefore... aftermarket parts aren't needed.
Thanks for your comments. I already have the adjustable plug, so it doesn’t hurt to use it.
 
A bit off topic, but I was curious about the magazine capacity laws for your hunting area?
 
This is false... garand port pressure is from 8000 to 11000psi depending on the load..this is with M2 ball.

Commercial ammo falls in this range as well.

Therefore... aftermarket parts aren't needed.

Odd, I thought we were discussing aftermarket gas plugs??? Hene the 6000psi (+/- 2000psi).

Most aftermarket plugs target +/- 6000psi. A link to 1 of many aftermarket plugs out there.
https://www.garandgear.com/m1-garand-ammunition

Their testing shows the different ball ammo's over the years can be anywhere from 8500psi to to just under 1100psi. That link also shows that they targeted 6000psi and managed to do so with 26 different commercial loads with bullets ranging from 150gr to 220gr.

Anyway there's a bunch of aftermarket gas plugs out there. Some increase the internal volume the decreases the pressure other are adjustable.
 
Odd, I thought we were discussing aftermarket gas plugs??? Hene the 6000psi (+/- 2000psi).

Most aftermarket plugs target +/- 6000psi. A link to 1 of many aftermarket plugs out there.
https://www.garandgear.com/m1-garand-ammunition

Their testing shows the different ball ammo's over the years can be anywhere from 8500psi to to just under 1100psi. That link also shows that they targeted 6000psi and managed to do so with 26 different commercial loads with bullets ranging from 150gr to 220gr.

Anyway there's a bunch of aftermarket gas plugs out there. Some increase the internal volume the decreases the pressure other are adjustable.
Their testing doesn't show anything about port pressure. If your garand is only getting 6000 psi at the port its barely cycling or not cycling at all. IIRC ours failed at 6300psi.

They are testing cylinder pressure and they cherry picked the ammo they tested OR they found milsurp ammo that was higher pressure and decided to not include that data as it would show their product isn't needed.

In the tests I conducted in a certified ballistics lab we got different results for cylinder pressure than they did. Our results were similar to Springfield Armory tests in the 60's. Their numbers are very low compared to historical test numbers.

The reality is..milsurp ammo creates 8500 to 11000psi at the port...those are my numbers done in a ballistics lab. Commercial ammo ALSO falls into that range. Therefore....commercial ammo is fine in garands. No aftermarket gadgets are needed.


FYI..it's not a "plug". It's a gas cylinder lock screw. Gas cylinder "plugs" were only on gas trap rifles. This is from JCG himself..
 
Thank you for correcting me, had no idea you are such an expert.

Anyway in the link I posted had 26 results using factory ammo and the people that make and sell the plugs (OOPS!!!) gas cylinder lock screws targeting 6000psi . I guess there's something wrong with their garands and all the people's garands they sold them to. Somehow their garands function with 6000psi gas cylinder port pressure and yours doesn't???
https://www.garandgear.com/media/Pressures/Pressure1.jpg
https://www.garandgear.com/media/Pressures/Pressure2.jpg
https://www.garandgear.com/media/Pressures/Pressure3.jpg

I'm not going to bother copying all their tests results but you can easily click on those links of the partial list of factory ammo they tested and it clearly shows the gas cylinder pressure curves in an easy to read graph.

Have no idea why you keep saying a garand will not function with xxx pressure. But none of it matter with the schester adjustable plug (strait from schester). OPPS!!! Schester adjustable gas cylinder lock screw. After finding a load the plug is adjusted until not only will the firearm cycle/function. The plug can dial the rifle in so the brass goes 3'/4'/5'. Whatever the owner/user wants.
 
Thank you for correcting me, had no idea you are such an expert.

Anyway in the link I posted had 26 results using factory ammo and the people that make and sell the plugs (OOPS!!!) gas cylinder lock screws targeting 6000psi . I guess there's something wrong with their garands and all the people's garands they sold them to. Somehow their garands function with 6000psi gas cylinder port pressure and yours doesn't???

Please show me where they are targeting 6000psi at the port.
https://www.garandgear.com/media/Pressures/Pressure1.jpg
https://www.garandgear.com/media/Pressures/Pressure2.jpg
https://www.garandgear.com/media/Pressures/Pressure3.jpg

I'm not going to bother copying all their tests results but you can easily click on those links of the partial list of factory ammo they tested and it clearly shows the gas cylinder pressure curves in an easy to read graph.
not sure the relevance?

Have no idea why you keep saying a garand will not function with xxx pressure. But none of it matter with the schester adjustable plug (strait from schester). OPPS!!! Schester adjustable gas cylinder lock screw. After finding a load the plug is adjusted until not only will the firearm cycle/function. The plug can dial the rifle in so the brass goes 3'/4'/5'. Whatever the owner/user wants.

Because...when you get down to around 6300psi at the port..there isn't enough gas to properly cycle the action. Thats why milspec port pressure is in the 8500psi range.
 
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