Have decided its my turn to reinvent the wheel.
A little background. Resumed reloading last year after a decades long break. Back when, it was mostly shotgun, as I shot 100X as much there as for a rifle. What I loaded for then were for the usual suspects.....clay targets and hunting....upland birds and waterfowl.
One of my curiosities with loading for shotguns has always been to load slugs and buckshot. More out of curiosity than actual need. But going over the Lee stuff in the Lee reloading manual, it sounded doable so I decided I ought to give it a go. Has been an interesting experiment.
So first things first. Loading #4 buckshot is easy. Loading #00 buckshot also easy (with right components). The Lee slugs also easy, but not as per the instructions.
Concept of the Lee slug is you can easily load them like any other shotgun load.....drop the slug in a shot cup, and use a folded crimp. Done deal. NOT!
For starters, the load data that comes with the Lee slug is for HOT loads, presumably intended for deer hunting out to distances of 100 yards (if accurate enough). Velocities are cranked up to 1550 fps. That is not a normal shotgun load. I managed to load and shoot one from their load data and it was a hammer.
But aside from that, the load data is horribly out of date. For the 7/8 oz slugs, Lee lists 11 load combinations....except that 7 of those loads use an Activ wad that hasn't been made in over 20 years, so is unavailable. Of the 4 remaining, they list Winchester AA wads that are also no longer available, and many are finding the clones like Claybusters are just enough different, they don't work either. Federal Gold Medal has been dropped and most find a Lee Slug won't fit into an STS hull. So basically, none of the 11 loads are doable. I do have a small stash of OEM Win AA12 wads, and was able to load and fire one, but even that was wrong. The wad needed a spacer card to get the crimp right. So basically, as it stands today, none of the Lee data will work.
Next place folks turn to is Ballistics Products (BPI) which specializes in all things shotgun slugs. In BPI's slug loading manual they offer 14 load combinations, but all 14 of those use BPI's Lightning 078 wad.......which is intended for a straight wall hull.....yet they still have load data for Win AA and STS hulls, and again, when I tried to push a 7/8 oz Lee slug in the 078 wad into a Gun Club hull, I got a huge bulge that would not even crimp, let alone chamber and fire. No joy there.
Then there all the wacky guys on youtube. Gotta think some are lucky to be alive.
So that left me to my own devices......and this is what I"ve come up with. Reporting here for comments and advice on alternatives I've not come up with.
For starters, I have over 20 wads I have looked at, from both my stash accumulated over the past 50 years, as well as modern era. Most of the Fiochi, Claybuster and Downrange options, etc. From the past, I have Pacific Verelite, Alcan Flite Max 1, 3, 4 and Unisleeves, Remington power pistons, Federal Champion and Pushin Cushion......(Federal 12S3), and the aforementioned Win AA12 (white) and AA12R (red). Maybe a few more than I forgot.
As for hulls, modern load data from Hodgdon has now been pared down to only Federal Gold Meda (which appears to have been dropped), Remington STS and cousins, and Win AA, both HS and Compression formed. With Federal dropped, slugs not fitting into STS, that leaves only the Win AA to work with as far as finding load data (2022 basic reloading manual). But go back in time, and you can find others. An older manual did also list Fiochi.
Which gets us to the next part, Dogma says you need to load slugs into straight walled hulls. Nobody says why, but at least in the case of BPI, the 078 wad they list is probably made by Fiochi and is intended for straight walled hulls (like Fiochi). But that is a problem when 90% of the hulls are tapered. Wads are not a good match.
So lastly, we get to the part about using the folded crimp......vs. rolled crimp, which is what dogma also suggests for loading slugs. My guess is a rolled crimp is due to the mix and match nature of components, the internal spacing never works out right, so guys can't get a good folded crimp, so they roll it......plus rolled crimp seems to be traditional for slug loads.
So where did I wind up that works? For starters, I ditched the Lee HOT load concept. Home Defense loads are often described as "reduced recoil" and show velocities in the 1150 fps range. With a 7/8 oz payload, that is a mild load that can be found in hundreds of combinations. But a hotter load in the 1250 to 1350 fps range is also doable with easy to find powders and components. At the low end, you can use faster powders like Red Dot, Nitro 100, Titewad, Ramshot Competition, Clays. Move up a hotter load and you move up to powders like International or Green Dot....still find plenty of load data combinations that will send a slug down the tube at a plenty fast enough rate to do some damage to whatever it encounters downrange. You wouldn't want to be standing in front of it when it goes off.
Load concept 1: I found new, clear, unfired Fiochi hulls sold with a new Fiochi 616 primer. That hull, combined with either the BPI 078 lighting, or nearly idential Fiochi 7/8 oz wad can be set over any one of a half dozen powders of various burn speeds to get velocities in the range of 1150 to 1400 fps. The slug fits the wad, what fits the hull.....and leaves 1/2" of hull for a folded crimip. Fiochi hulls normally get a 6 point crimp, and that has worked for me. Fiochi also makes a nearly identical wad for 1 oz to 1 1/8 oz shot loads that with addition of a nitro card, would work the same. An advantage of the clear Fiochi hulls is you can easily see what you got. Slug or buckshot and even which one.
Mention of the nitro card also swerves into a different issue, which is the interaction of the plastic wad with the Lee key drive slug. Lee intended it to dig in a bit, so if fired from a rifled barrel, wad would spin up and spin up the slug with it, promoting better accuracy. What some have found is the end result is the two tend to merge into one, wad does not release, and the slug takes the wad with it downrange to the target. Instead of enhancing accuracy, it detracts from it. What others are finding is if you put a card under the slug, the wad will release, and the 7/8 oz version at least, is nose heavy, and is pretty accurate by itself as it simulates the shuttlecock design of some other slugs.
Load concept 2: Win AA hulls, either HS or CF will take a slug with the right wad. Genuine AA12 wads will load and fire well with slugs. No bulge. Claybusters and Downrange are two of the most common clones and what 99.9% of reloaders use. I have one DR wad what loads and works well, but got a lot of blowby on both the wad and hull exterior, suggesting the fit was not tight. Some of the CB wads have a thickened section running vertical with the petals........such that a slug inserted into them splays the petals out, and you get a bulged case. OEM Win AA12 do not have that rib. Still working on those.
The draw or appeal of the Wiin AA cases is the number of components designed for them is larger than for Fed, Fiochi and Rem combined.
Lastly, by using a wad with 1 1/8 oz shot cup, the exact same load.....same hull, primer, powder and wad can be used for either the Lee slug (with nitro card spacer) or a 7/8 oz to 1 oz load of #4 buckshot. One set of components, two different loads.
A little background. Resumed reloading last year after a decades long break. Back when, it was mostly shotgun, as I shot 100X as much there as for a rifle. What I loaded for then were for the usual suspects.....clay targets and hunting....upland birds and waterfowl.
One of my curiosities with loading for shotguns has always been to load slugs and buckshot. More out of curiosity than actual need. But going over the Lee stuff in the Lee reloading manual, it sounded doable so I decided I ought to give it a go. Has been an interesting experiment.
So first things first. Loading #4 buckshot is easy. Loading #00 buckshot also easy (with right components). The Lee slugs also easy, but not as per the instructions.
Concept of the Lee slug is you can easily load them like any other shotgun load.....drop the slug in a shot cup, and use a folded crimp. Done deal. NOT!
For starters, the load data that comes with the Lee slug is for HOT loads, presumably intended for deer hunting out to distances of 100 yards (if accurate enough). Velocities are cranked up to 1550 fps. That is not a normal shotgun load. I managed to load and shoot one from their load data and it was a hammer.
But aside from that, the load data is horribly out of date. For the 7/8 oz slugs, Lee lists 11 load combinations....except that 7 of those loads use an Activ wad that hasn't been made in over 20 years, so is unavailable. Of the 4 remaining, they list Winchester AA wads that are also no longer available, and many are finding the clones like Claybusters are just enough different, they don't work either. Federal Gold Medal has been dropped and most find a Lee Slug won't fit into an STS hull. So basically, none of the 11 loads are doable. I do have a small stash of OEM Win AA12 wads, and was able to load and fire one, but even that was wrong. The wad needed a spacer card to get the crimp right. So basically, as it stands today, none of the Lee data will work.
Next place folks turn to is Ballistics Products (BPI) which specializes in all things shotgun slugs. In BPI's slug loading manual they offer 14 load combinations, but all 14 of those use BPI's Lightning 078 wad.......which is intended for a straight wall hull.....yet they still have load data for Win AA and STS hulls, and again, when I tried to push a 7/8 oz Lee slug in the 078 wad into a Gun Club hull, I got a huge bulge that would not even crimp, let alone chamber and fire. No joy there.
Then there all the wacky guys on youtube. Gotta think some are lucky to be alive.
So that left me to my own devices......and this is what I"ve come up with. Reporting here for comments and advice on alternatives I've not come up with.
For starters, I have over 20 wads I have looked at, from both my stash accumulated over the past 50 years, as well as modern era. Most of the Fiochi, Claybuster and Downrange options, etc. From the past, I have Pacific Verelite, Alcan Flite Max 1, 3, 4 and Unisleeves, Remington power pistons, Federal Champion and Pushin Cushion......(Federal 12S3), and the aforementioned Win AA12 (white) and AA12R (red). Maybe a few more than I forgot.
As for hulls, modern load data from Hodgdon has now been pared down to only Federal Gold Meda (which appears to have been dropped), Remington STS and cousins, and Win AA, both HS and Compression formed. With Federal dropped, slugs not fitting into STS, that leaves only the Win AA to work with as far as finding load data (2022 basic reloading manual). But go back in time, and you can find others. An older manual did also list Fiochi.
Which gets us to the next part, Dogma says you need to load slugs into straight walled hulls. Nobody says why, but at least in the case of BPI, the 078 wad they list is probably made by Fiochi and is intended for straight walled hulls (like Fiochi). But that is a problem when 90% of the hulls are tapered. Wads are not a good match.
So lastly, we get to the part about using the folded crimp......vs. rolled crimp, which is what dogma also suggests for loading slugs. My guess is a rolled crimp is due to the mix and match nature of components, the internal spacing never works out right, so guys can't get a good folded crimp, so they roll it......plus rolled crimp seems to be traditional for slug loads.
So where did I wind up that works? For starters, I ditched the Lee HOT load concept. Home Defense loads are often described as "reduced recoil" and show velocities in the 1150 fps range. With a 7/8 oz payload, that is a mild load that can be found in hundreds of combinations. But a hotter load in the 1250 to 1350 fps range is also doable with easy to find powders and components. At the low end, you can use faster powders like Red Dot, Nitro 100, Titewad, Ramshot Competition, Clays. Move up a hotter load and you move up to powders like International or Green Dot....still find plenty of load data combinations that will send a slug down the tube at a plenty fast enough rate to do some damage to whatever it encounters downrange. You wouldn't want to be standing in front of it when it goes off.
Load concept 1: I found new, clear, unfired Fiochi hulls sold with a new Fiochi 616 primer. That hull, combined with either the BPI 078 lighting, or nearly idential Fiochi 7/8 oz wad can be set over any one of a half dozen powders of various burn speeds to get velocities in the range of 1150 to 1400 fps. The slug fits the wad, what fits the hull.....and leaves 1/2" of hull for a folded crimip. Fiochi hulls normally get a 6 point crimp, and that has worked for me. Fiochi also makes a nearly identical wad for 1 oz to 1 1/8 oz shot loads that with addition of a nitro card, would work the same. An advantage of the clear Fiochi hulls is you can easily see what you got. Slug or buckshot and even which one.
Mention of the nitro card also swerves into a different issue, which is the interaction of the plastic wad with the Lee key drive slug. Lee intended it to dig in a bit, so if fired from a rifled barrel, wad would spin up and spin up the slug with it, promoting better accuracy. What some have found is the end result is the two tend to merge into one, wad does not release, and the slug takes the wad with it downrange to the target. Instead of enhancing accuracy, it detracts from it. What others are finding is if you put a card under the slug, the wad will release, and the 7/8 oz version at least, is nose heavy, and is pretty accurate by itself as it simulates the shuttlecock design of some other slugs.
Load concept 2: Win AA hulls, either HS or CF will take a slug with the right wad. Genuine AA12 wads will load and fire well with slugs. No bulge. Claybusters and Downrange are two of the most common clones and what 99.9% of reloaders use. I have one DR wad what loads and works well, but got a lot of blowby on both the wad and hull exterior, suggesting the fit was not tight. Some of the CB wads have a thickened section running vertical with the petals........such that a slug inserted into them splays the petals out, and you get a bulged case. OEM Win AA12 do not have that rib. Still working on those.
The draw or appeal of the Wiin AA cases is the number of components designed for them is larger than for Fed, Fiochi and Rem combined.
Lastly, by using a wad with 1 1/8 oz shot cup, the exact same load.....same hull, primer, powder and wad can be used for either the Lee slug (with nitro card spacer) or a 7/8 oz to 1 oz load of #4 buckshot. One set of components, two different loads.
