Loading up 44 mag beyond max load

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ArtP

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I have an interest in loading up some 44 mag rounds that go beyond max book loads. I have a SBH and Marlin 1894. I've read both of these guns are very strong and capable of accpeting more powerful loads. In fact, I bought the SBH for its strength.

I'm interested in your experience with going beyond book values in a gun capable of handling it. I won't ask how much 110/296 you're using for 270 grain bullets. But I will ask how much extra velocity you're getting if you happen to chrono them or just how much stronger you believe my two 44's are - what they can handle.

I'm asking what is possible with these guns, if you want to share your recipe, even better.

My Hornady manual calls for 23.2 of H110 to make 1700 fps with 265 grain projectile. The info given to me directly from Speer is something less than that.

Disclaimer: I accept my own liability, will always work up my own loads starting at book min.
 
I've pushed cartridges past their limits in my earlier days. In most cases you're talking about 100 fps more from a rifle, I've never measured any of the pistols. I don't see it as being worth it to push a cartridge beyond what it was meant for.

Even though the gun is capable of withstanding heavier loads you're putting more stress on the firearm and it will wear out sooner. I don't see that as being worth the price of a little more velocity and energy.
 
Thanks. I would agree if 100fps is all I could gain. That was my question, is how much further can it go.
 
If you happen to go too far you may not blow the gun up, but if you over-stress the cylinder you can expand a chamber (or chambers, as the case may be), after which it is ruined. With continued use it may let go.

If recommended .44 Magnum loads aren't enough (they are for me and then some) trade in the Super Blackhawk and buy a Super Redhawk in .454 Casull.

More power - less risk. ;)
 
My Hornady manual calls for 23.2 of H110 to make 1700 fps with 265 grain projectile. The info given to me directly from Speer is something less than that.
Click to expand...

I believe that load would be 100% case capacity. Compressing powders can put your perspective into an entirely different catagory.

As far as 1700 fps goes , welll.. maybe in a rifle with a 18" barrel.

I have deformed the bullet nose stuffing it into a case full of 296/110 and the best that I ever got from a 8" barrel with a 240 grain bullet was 1530 fps.
 
An old guy in the gun club I belonged to many years back was asked your question on getting the absolute max "safe" velocity.

Old dude leaned back, looked the eager, frisky young guy square in the eyes and said, "Pick your powder and bullet, load it by the book and keep adding a half grain at a time until it blows up. Then back off a full grain." He's dead now but he didn't die by blowing himself up.

Now I'm an old dude myself, look me in the eyes. Getting the last possible 100 fps out of a handgun may be interesting but it's risky and worthless in effect.
 
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The 1700fps figure is most certainly from a rifle. I would also suggest looking at Hodgdon's data for the 270gr Speer Gold Dot. They're getting 1439fps with Lil Gun from a sixgun barrel so figure on 300-400fps higher than that from a rifle. Hornady's 265gr is an old .444 design and the Gold Dot is a much better bullet with a bonded core, suitable for elk and moose.

I'd suggest looking at Brian Pearce's article and using it for reference. Bear in mind, however, that his loads are intended for the Redhawk, which has a significantly larger cylinder and is safe to 45-50,000psi. Your 1894 is not 'that' strong. Mic McPherson, who is the last word on Marlin 94's, suggest no higher than 40,000psi. The 1892 is a much stronger design.
 
In the interest of "experimentation", I've handloaded some .44 magnum ammo that was borderline scary. This was mostly used in a Ruger Redhawk that I've owned for 25 years. None of these ever seemed to bother the gun, but anytime you have to knock the empty cases from a Redhawk cylinder with a brass rod, you're really in dangerous territory. One recipe I won't print gave a 320 gr. cast boolit nearly 1500 fps. over my chronograph.

Get a bigger gun. I own several .454 Casulls to satisfy those urges.
 
You can push loads until you have all manner of trouble with brass, and you risk failure or destruction of the weapon, and possibly permanent personal injury.

...and for what?

Factory .44 magnum ammo was powerful enough for Dirty Harry.

Elmer Keith was known to touch off some especially hot loads from time to time.
Makes for good story-telling, if you have Elmer's gift. Otherwise, there is no point to it.

If you need to hit something harder than what an "ordinary" .44 magnum will do, I suggest a rifle, or even a 12 gauge with slugs.
 
296/H-110 uses to much volume, i would go with a slightly faster burning powder. then work that load up, i just dont think compressing H110 is a good idea, so find your next fast burning powder with less volume to get there.
 
W.E.G. said:
You can push loads until you have all manner of trouble with brass, and you risk failure or destruction of the weapon, and possibly permanent personal injury.

...and for what?

Factory .44 magnum ammo was powerful enough for Dirty Harry.

Elmer Keith was known to touch off some especially hot loads from time to time.
Makes for good story-telling, if you have Elmer's gift. Otherwise, there is no point to it.

If you need to hit something harder than what an "ordinary" .44 magnum will do, I suggest a rifle, or even a 12 gauge with slugs.
Click to expand...


....................exactly.

There was a time when we didn't have a viable option. If you wanted more than what you could get from legitimate .44 mag loads, you had to push the limits of the .44 loadings. Now days there are safer, more accurate, more efficient means. Instead of trying to push a .44 to .454 velocities and bullet weights, one can just buy a .454. If the .454 is still not big enough, there's .460s, .480s and .500s......and you don't have to abuse the gun or yourself to do it. Use the right tool for the job. I've found all my .44s are most accurate at velocities and pressures less than max. To me, that extra 50-100fps ain't worth the extra inch @ 50 yards.
 
In my experience, handgun cartridges loaded to their maximum aren't as accurate as those loaded to slightly below maximum, (not counting mild accuracy-only target loads). The only exception to this, for me at least, is the aptly named .357 Maximum, which seems to be most accurate when loaded to peak pressures. I don't shoot the .454 Casull, .475 Linebaugh or the .460 & .500 S&W, so I don't know about them.
If you are serious about +P+ .44 Mag loads, I would suggest getting rid of the SBH and get a Dan Wesson, Ruger Super Redhawk or a Magnum Research BFR. The DW and Redhawk have larger cylinders; the BFR is a five-shot cylinder that's also used for their .454 Casull model and will handle almost anything you can think of.
 
Sorry, I can't go with you on this one. As a guy who survived one KaBoom which, incidentally was not caused by faulty reloads, I know what it's like and it ain't fun.

I load only published loads and below maximum SAAMI specs. Millions of dollars are spent in developing standards and testing loads. Thinking I can "improve" those loads by tweaking them in my garage is just foolish. I wish you the best of luck in your quest.

Flash
 
Interesting title "...beyond max" - that is like saying "beyond infinity...." = if you are successful - then you are not "beyond max"...

If you feel the need to go down this path - every gun, load, crimp, powder, primer, brass, brass fouling(dirt)...and a myriad of other things come into play.

Go to the edge...but accept the consequences when you fall over it.
 
This is the last post that I will make on this forum, further it is the last time that I will read it. Advising anyone to experiment with 'hot loads' is unethical. That the moderators allow this to go on speaks volumes for the character of this sight. SAAMI spec's are there for a reason, further the powder manufacturers limit loads to those specs. If a 44 mag isn't enough then you bought the wrong gun, you have purchased a 444 marlin, or a 45/70, or 454. Hell go ahead and apply for your destructive device permit and buy a 20 mm. Years of research and development go into building these fine firearms, for some idiot to cram as much powder in the case as possible to see what will happen. Then when the gun is wrecked he sells it at a local pawn shop and someone else gets stuck with the problem. See thread in gunsmithing and repairs entitled "Excess headspace Remington 788" poor guy must have gotten one of your used guns.
 
Actually Dirty Harry used a 44 Special load to get back on target quicker, or said something to that effect. The statement was made at a range session with the young vigilante cops I believe. Whichever Dirty Harry movie that was.

"To infinity and beyond!" - Probably not a good choice for a reloading ammunition. Without knowing the actual pressures involved, and you don't unless you are experimenting an instrumented laboratory, you are high stakes gambling with a negligible return for your risk. If you are firing those type of loads around anyone else are they aware of the risk you are bestowing on them? For those so inclined, I recommend lottery tickets, at least they offer the advantage of knowing what you are liable to lose up front and aren't likely to hurt anyone else.
 
it is a terrible idea... if you want more than the 44 mag can offer, get something bigger than a 44 mag.
 
This is the last post that I will make on this forum, further it is the last time that I will read it. Advising anyone to experiment with 'hot loads' is unethical. That the moderators allow this to go on speaks volumes for the character of this sight.
Click to expand...

Couple of things.

First, you are right that it's a really bad idea and if you notice the new disclaimer at the bottom of the THR screens you will see that the administration here is greatly concerned about such things being published and people actually trying this stuff.

As for the moderators "allowing this to go on", do you really think we can read every post in every thread? The "report post" button allows for everyone to help with that.

The only reason I saw it was I just happened to be surfing around the Reloading forum for fun.

So, now that it's been noticed, it's over.
 
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