Loading with H110 or 296

[gamestalker]

Loading magnum wheel gun cartridges with these slow burning ball powders is a different ball game than with the other faster burning powders and should be understood to prevent undesireable pressures and other unexplained issues. In general we load with a given powder and when we experience high pressures we back off and have thus determined the sweet spot. This works well and is in line with fast burning powders, but with the slow burning ball powders the method is very opposit. Slow ball powder will display high pressures until the charge has been worked up high enough rather than backing it off. The general rule of thumb is if you are getting flames, high pressures, and smokey brass the charge needs to be increased until those signs disappear. Extruded primers are also another sign that will plague H110/296 powder charge when it is below optimum weight. Recomendations are to use middle of the road data with these powders as the starting charge and then work up as I described above. Another absolute requirement is the use of magnum primers. Ball powders are more difficult to ignite, so if a would be proper charge is not utilizing a magnum primer it will produce unburned powder and high pressures.

 

[243winxb]

W296 & H110 Powders.

Slow ball powder will display high pressures until the charge has been worked up high enough rather than backing it off. Recomendations are to use middle of the road data with these powders as the starting charge and then work up as I described above.

I do not agree with the above statement. Squib loads are a results of light/midrange loads. Follow powder manufactures recomendations. From the Hodgdon website.>

Reduce H110 and Winchester 296 loads 3% and work up from there. H110 and Winchester 296 if reduced too much will cause inconsistent ignition. In some cases it will lodge a bullet in the barrel, causing a hazardous situation (Barrel Obstruction). This may cause severe personal injury or death to users or bystanders. DO NOT REDUCE H110 LOADS BY MORE THAN 3%.

 

[USSR]

^^^^^ Agree with 243winxb's post, and because of the inflexibility of H110/W296, I do not use them.

Don

 

[MtnCreek]

What about 2400? Same issue as 110 or can it be reduced 10% off listed max?

 

[rcmodel]

You can do anything you want to do with 2400.

The worst that can happen with reduced loads of 2400 is a lot of unburned power left in the gun.

But if you get to that point, you should be using a faster powder like Unique or something anyway.

rc

 

[gamestalker]

I'm not in disagreement what so ever about reduced charges, rather too light of a charge of those ball powders causing a squib. What I am staing, and mind you it is based on fact, not my opinion, is that flames, high pressures, smokey cases, and or primers backing out is an indicator the charge needs to be increased. But the first and most reliable means of identifying too light a charge is the flames. Those who are mildly familar with H110 or 296 are under the impression that flames are the norm with those powders and that is simply not the case. If the charge is worked up to where it's supposed to be, there will be not excessive flames, and the key words here are "worked up".
I do however agree that those powders are not flexable. These powders have one purpose and only one, they are intended to load to a maximum full house magnum range and nothing else. 2400 is very different and is probably one of the more flexable powders for some hot action, but not up to the velocity range of H110/296.

 

[rcmodel]

Yep!

According to my Lyman #49, H-110 can give you as much as 46 FPS less, to 150 FPS more, depending on bullet weights then 2400!

Yowsir!
That right there is worth using an inflexable powder to me all right!

rc

 

[Galil5.56]

If the charge is worked up to where it's supposed to be, there will be not excessive flames, and the key words here are "worked up".

Prior to the Hodgdon takeover, there was no "work-up" in Winchester guides. The data clearly stated "Do not reduce powder charges with 296 powder. These loads must be used exactly as shown"... Used this data over 20 years ago, and continue using it today, that being 24 grains for 240 grain jacketed; 25 grains for 240 grain LSWC. Always very accurate, and chronographs anywhere from 1360-1400 fps from my 6 1/2" Model 29.

No problems with this published data at all, (why should there???), plus you know, or should know that full power only is what you get using WW296/H110... It's a superb propellant for the task at hand when used correctly, and for those who wish to download/play around, try something else that will be hard pressed to get the velocity of WW296/H110 if desired, or surpass its accuracy in my experience.

 

[bergmen]

I'm not in disagreement what so ever about reduced charges, rather too light of a charge of those ball powders causing a squib. What I am staing, and mind you it is based on fact, not my opinion, is that flames, high pressures, smokey cases, and or primers backing out is an indicator the charge needs to be increased. But the first and most reliable means of identifying too light a charge is the flames. Those who are mildly familar with H110 or 296 are under the impression that flames are the norm with those powders and that is simply not the case. If the charge is worked up to where it's supposed to be, there will be not excessive flames, and the key words here are "worked up".
I do however agree that those powders are not flexable. These powders have one purpose and only one, they are intended to load to a maximum full house magnum range and nothing else. 2400 is very different and is probably one of the more flexable powders for some hot action, but not up to the velocity range of H110/296.

Well, I'm getting basket-ball sized balls of flame out of my Ruger Blackhawk with 7 1/2" barrel, .45 Colt loads, right now that are at published maximum (25.0 grains of W296 under a 250 grain Hornady XTP - Hodgdon Reloading Manual).

Been this way for many, many years. To suggest that this is too light a load is ridiculous. Oh, and BTW, I worked up from 20.0 grains and the ball of flame just got bigger as I went up.

Dan

 

[R.W.Dale]

I love how nowadays everyone refers to these powders interchangeably. Referring to em as "h110-296"

BTW I do it too, I'll look at prices and buy whichever can is cheaper at the time.


Tapatalk post via IPhone.

 

[rcmodel]

Nowadays, they are the same powder exactly, although they didn't used to be.

Hodgdon packages & sells them both now, and both powders are coming out of the same bulk shipping container from St. Marks powder company in Florida.

rc

 

[BADUNAME37]

I have loaded 296 and 110 for .357, .44 and 500 Magnums. Working loads up to maximum, even the .357 out of an SP101 Snubby will produce a ball of fire about half the size of a small car!

The primers and cases are just where they should be, without any signs of excessive pressure -- a bit of radius left around the circumference of the primer with no cratering of primers at all around the firing pin and all cases extract easily, with one finger pushing five or six rounds out of the cylinder.

The brass commonly shows signs of "smokey brass" -- yet I still would not even dare increasing my loads even by one granule of powder!

The last thing I would do is increase the charge based on the amount of flame I am getting! So, I must disagree with the statement

The general rule of thumb is if you are getting flames, high pressures, and smokey brass the charge needs to be increased until those signs disappear.

I can just visualize just what the gun would look like if I were to "increase charge until these signs disappear!" The gun may still be there (at least part of it), and the shooter may be the only thing to "disappear!"

 

[Blue68f100]

296 powder acts different than any other powder I have used. I've used it for over 30 yrs for my 357mag loads. Like Galil5.56 said, it was one that you loaded as stated and did not back down from. The latest load data shows that they have actually given you a range to work in now. If I recall the values are actually higher. But over years mfg tolerances change and so do the load data. But you can only back off 3% not the std 10% like other powders.

 

[hubcap]

H-110 and W-296 are the same powder, different labels. Check out the Hodgdon load manuals. All loads have identical charge weights, velocities, and pressures.

 

[cfullgraf]

Nowadays, they are the same powder exactly, although they didn't used to be.

I read in some gun rag a year or two ago that W296 and H110 have always been the same. Either Winchester (Olin) or Hodgdon did not want that to be known and intentionally made the data a bit different. But we all know how reliable the press can be.

And, i have slept since I think I read that information...

I can respect anyone's decision to not use W296/H110 for what ever reason. I have my powder idiosyncrasies.

I have used without issue W296 in 357 Magnum for 30 years, .410 bore of 15 years and 30 Carbine of late. I respect the powder's limitation and do not load outside the listed charge levels.

For 357 Magnum, I use W296 only for near full power loads. If I want something less, W296 is not appropriate and I don't try to make it so. Other powders, like Unique, are used by me for mid level 357 magnum loads.

 

[LTR shooter]

I've fired many of the Hornady 158HP and the newer 158XTPs in various 357s and used data from 3 different Hornady Handbooks.

For 296 and 158 357

1980 Third Edition 14.1 - 17.0
1991 Fourth Edition 14.3 - 16.4
2003 Sixth Edition 12.4 - 16.0

I've loaded under max by more than 3% and never had any issues. 2400 in their data had no flexibility advantage in regards to the range of velocities achievable. The faster 2400 does of course take less powder for given velocity.

 

[243winxb]

Light bullets for caliber are more of a problem when using H110 or W296. In 44mag, the 180 gr bullets and in 357mag 110gr & 125gr bullets are not a good match. Standard or heavy bullet weights for caliber are a better choice for a clean/complete burn. Plus what R.W.Dale said below.

 

[R.W.Dale]

Essentially in a nutshell anything that LOWERS ignition pressures is bad for H110-296

Light crimps
light bullets
weaker primers
low neck tension
oversized bores
ect

 

[buck460XVR]

H110/W296 may have narrow parameters, but it performs very well within them, and is perfectly safe when used with published loads. It is virtually the only powder I use for legitimate magnum loads in my 357s, 44s and 460. Revolvers and carbines. I have never been able to match it's speed and accuracy in any of those calibers with 2400. In my .44s, IMR4227 can match the accuracy, but not the velocity. I get a kick outta those that claim you have to follow the book with H110 or you're treading in dangerous territory. Ain't that true with all powders?

 

[Ruger GP100 fan]

Fairly new to reloading,here,and I use 110/296 exclusively in my 357. I would like to know if muzzle flash is only present when unburned powder remains in the case/barrel after the bullet is gone. Someone posted some data several weeks ago showing increased pressures beyond the maximum load. If the bullet is gone why does the pressure continue to rise?

 

[rodregier]

I have a letter from Olin/Winchester from many years ago confirming the equivalency of the two powders (and some other pairs). There is some lot-to-lot variance, which is one of the sources of different published load data.

 

[bluetopper]

Through the years, has there ever been more threads about a particular powder on THR than H110/296?

If there has, I don't know about it.

 

[Ruger GP100 fan]

Fairly new to reloading,here,and I use 110/296 exclusively in my 357. I would like to know if muzzle flash is only present when unburned powder remains in the case/barrel after the bullet is gone. Someone posted some data several weeks ago showing increased pressures beyond the maximum load. If the bullet is gone why does the pressure continue to rise?

Anyone care to take a shot at this or has it already been talked to death as one member pointed out? Since I use a lot of this powder I'd like to understand it as much as I can.

 

[Clark]

Old load books have loads for H110 and 9mm, 38 special, and other things you don't see any more.

Load books try to avoid the possibility that anything that can go wrong will go wrong.

I have found that H110 charges can be lowered very low, if there is enough roll crimp.

But not enough crimp can make for squib bullet squatters in the throat.

If you call or write Hodgdon, the will tell you why they do not list low charges for H110 and LIL'GUN.

 

[Ruger GP100 fan]

Thanks,Clark,but my question has to do with maximum loads and pressure beyond max. In short,I guess,has all of the powder ignited prior to the bullet leaving the barrel and if not why do pressures continue to increase?