Powder shape and burn rate

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LiveLife

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Found this interesting Vihtavuori technical article on effect of powder granule shape on burn rate, chamber pressure and velocity - https://www.vihtavuori.com/tech-blog-powder-grain-shapes/

FYI, N300 series granule picture, density, energy and application - https://www.vihtavuori.com/powders/n300-powders/

Every Vihtavuori powder pictures and descriptions - https://www.vihtavuori.com/powder/


(4/24/18) The shape of powder grains has a profound effect on the performance of the powder charge, as it concerns both pressure and velocity.

All Vihtavuori reloading powders are of the cylindrical, single-perforated extruded stick type. The differences in burning rate between the powders depend on the size of the grain, the wall thickness of the cylinder, the surface coating and the composition. Cylindrical extruded powders can also have multi-perforated grains. The most common types are the 7- and 19-perforated varieties. A multi-perforated powder grain is naturally of a much larger size than one with a single perforation, and is typically used for large caliber ammunition.

Other types of powder grain shapes include sphere or ball, and flake. The ball grains are typically used in automatic firearms but also in rifles and handguns. The ball grain is less costly to produce, as it is not pressed into shape like cylindrical grains. Flake shaped grains are typically used in shotgun loadings.

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Web thickness in gunpowder terminology means the minimum distance that the combustion zones can travel within the powder grain without encountering each other. In spherical powders, this distance is the diameter of the “ball”; in flake powder it is the thickness of the flake; and in multi-perforated extruded powders it is the minimum distance (i.e. wall thickness) between the perforations.

The burning rate of powder composed of grains without any perforations or surface treatment is related to the surface area of the grain available for burning at any given pressure level. The change in the surface area that is burning during combustion is described by a so-called form function. If the surface area increases, the form function does likewise and its behavior is termed progressive. If the form function decreases, its behavior is said to be degressive. If the flame area remains constant throughout the combustion process, we describe it as “neutral” behavior.

The cylindrical, perforated powders are progressive; the burning rate increases as the surface area increases, and the pressure builds up slower, increasing until it reaches its peak and then collapses. Flake and ball grains are degressive; the total powder surface area and pressure are at their peak at ignition, decreasing as the combustion progresses.

So how does the shape affect pressure and muzzle velocity? In general, it can be said that powder that burns progressively achieves a desired muzzle velocity at lower maximum pressure than a powder that burns neutrally, not to mention a degressive powder. As grain size increases, the maximum pressure moves towards the muzzle, also increasing muzzle blast. Muzzle velocity and pressure can be adjusted by means of the amount of powder or loading density, i.e. the relationship between the powder mass and the volume available to it. As the loading density increases, maximum pressure grows.
 

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Below is my compilation of pistol powders by relative burn rate groupings referencing various burn rate charts.

Using the relative groupings and "Same/Comparable Powders" thread listings along with powder descriptions/applications on the next post, you can better determine which powders are suitable for your particular load whether lighter target load using faster burn rate powders to higher velocity full power defensive loads using slower burn rate powders - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...-different-labels.797388/page-6#post-10806193


Faster burning pistol powders:

E3 - Competition - Nitro 100 - N310 - Norma R1

Red Dot/Promo - IMR Red - Clays - 700X - Bullseye - Vectan Ba 10 - IMR Target - TiteGroup - Vectan AS - Am. Select - Solo 1000 - WST - International - Trail Boss - N320 - Vectan Ba 9.5 - No. 2 - Clean Shot/Lovex D032.03

W231/HP-38 - Zip - Sport Pistol - Green Dot - IMR Green


Slower burning pistol powders
:

Unique - Universal - W244 - IMR Unequal - Vectan Ba 9 - BE-86 - Power Pistol - N330 - Vectan A1 - Herco - Vectan A0 - WSF - N340 - 800X

No. 5 - Auto Pistol/Lovex D036-03 - True Blue - HS6 - AutoComp - Ultimate Pistol/Lovex D036-07 - CFE Pistol - Silhouette - 3N37

N350 - 3N38 - IMR Blue - W572 - Blue Dot - No. 7 - Major Pistol/Lovex D037-01 - Vectan Ba 7.5 - Pro Reach - Long Shot - 2400

Enforcer - No. 9 - Heavy Pistol/Lovex D037-02 - 4100 - Steel - Norma R123 - N110 - Lil'Gun - W296/H110 - 300-MP - 11FS - Vectan Ba 6.5 - H4227
 
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Powder granule description, application and pictures of popular pistol powders compared to W231/HP-38 - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...s-and-discussions.778197/page-7#post-10094185

I will see if I can have the original thread unlocked to add more recently released powders like BE-86/Sport Pistol/W244/IMR Target - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/pistol-powder-comparison-pictures.744995/

FYI, powder metering consistency 10 drops measured on C-H 502 micrometer powder measure - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/c-h-502-micrometer-powder-measure-10-drops.834894/


Alliant Bullseye, Winchester 231/Hodgdon HP-38 and Alliant Power Pistol

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W231 and HP-38 are coated flattened ball powders. They are the same exact powder sold by Winchester and licensed to Hodgdon in 2006 and W231 load data can be interchanged with HP-38 if your W231 was manufactured after 2006. Because of small size and smooth coating, W231/HP-38 meters very consistently and drops powder charges from Pro Auto Disk with .1 gr variance. The coating helps lubricate Pro Auto Disk surfaces and is my powder of choice for breaking-in new Pro Auto Disk. I use W231/HP-38 for all pistol calibers I load for as it produces accurate mid-range lower pressure target loads that produce milder recoil and is a good powder for new reloaders just starting out, especially if using Pro Auto Disk powder measure. It produces 9mm like recoil in 40S&W with start/low charges and moderate recoil with mid range charges. Because of small size and smooth flowing characteristics, I use it for 380Auto loads requiring small powder charges of 2.6-3.0 gr [successfully tested down to 2.0 gr] using this $1 modification to my Auto Disk - http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=9318202

Bullseye is a small flake powder and meters with less than .1 gr variance. Bullseye can produce very accurate target loads (more accurate than W231/HP-38) but because it is faster burning than W231/HP-38, felt recoil generated is more snappy but manageable in 9mm and less comfortable in 40S&W. Bullseye downloads well (shoots accurate down to start charge and below start charge) and is a popular powder with Bullseye match shooters (hence the name). Same Auto Disk mod works well with Bullseye to drop 1.8-2.6 gr [successfully tested down to 1.5 gr] - http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=9318360#post9318360

Power Pistol is a small flake powder and meters with .1 gr variance. Power Pistol is slower burning than W231/HP-38 and tends to produce larger than typical muzzle flash in some loads and is popular for 40S&W and other calibers for full-power loads. In recent years, Alliant released BE-86 which is at comparable burn rate but produces smaller muzzle flash and very accurate loads.


Alliant Red Dot, W231/HP-38 and Alliant Promo

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Red Dot is a large flake powder and meters with up to .2+ gr variance. If you look at Red Dot closely, you'll see occasional red flakes. Red Dot is a faster burning powder than W231/HP-38 (I think on par with Bullseye) and well suited for various pistol calibers. Despite the larger metering variance, it produces accurate enough loads for range practice/plinking loads. If you find current load data from Alliant limited, you can find more FMJ/lead loads in 2004 Alliant load data - http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=182147&d=1364769070

Promo is a large flake powder and meters with up to .2+ gr variance and has been blended in recent years for better metering. Promo burn rate is comparable to Red Dot and Alliant says to use Red Dot load data by weight as Promo is more dense. It is my favorite powder for 9mm and 45ACP practice/plinking loads along with blowback carbine loads due to faster case mouth sealing with chamber before bolt moves back. (Promo thread for 9mm/40S&W range test and 45ACP range test). Promo has been blended in recent years to meter/flow better and I have seen increasing accuracy, especially in carbine loads with Promo - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...blended-promo-for-more-accurate-loads.841097/

Although Red Dot/Promo can be used for 40S&W, like Bullseye, they tend to produce more snappy recoil than W231/HP-38 and slower burning powders with the exception of Green Dot.


W231/HP-38, Vihtavuori N320 and Winchester Super Target (WST)

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N320 is cut extruded powder (like most rifle powder) that meters with .1 gr variance. N320 is a fast burning powder and many match shooters consider it to be the best 9mm match powder that burns clean and shoots accurate. Growing number of match shooters are favoring Sport Pistol as new N320 that burns cleaner at lower cost - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...-performance-info-for-shot-011017-pdf.235432/

WST is flattened ball powder without the black coating. It is a fast burn rate powder that meters with .1 gr variance. [Although Hodgdon does not publish load data for 9mm, many match shooters use it. With 124/125 gr bullet pushed to beyond 125 power factor velocities, powder charge may be compressed to varying degree so anticipate spiking of pressure with higher than 4.0 gr charge with FMJ/RN loaded to 1.160" OAL/COL. Many seasoned match shooters confirmed WST was spiky at the top]


Hodgdon Clays, W231/HP-38 and Hodgdon Titegroup

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Clays is a very clean burning fast burn rate powder that meters with .1 gr variance. It is capable of producing accurate light target loads.

Reloaders have either love or hate relationship with Titegroup. Titegroup meters with .1 gr variance and is a fast burning powder that burns hot and violent (spiky chamber pressure build up) at near max load data with very narrow load range for many loads (some may consider the start charge to be already near max ). It is a powder that I do not recommend to new reloaders, particularly with lead bullets. However, it is a popular powder with many match shooters as match loads that meet velocity/power factor requirements are less temperature sensitive than W231/HP-38.


Alliant Green Dot, W231/HP-38 and Alliant Herco

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Green Dot is sized between Bullseye and Red Dot/Unique and has green flakes. It meters with .1+ gr variance and I consider it Alliant's closest powder to W231/HP-38 until Sport Pistol was released. I found I needed to use .2-.3 gr more powder than my W231/HP-38 loads and produces slightly less accurate loads but if you can't find W231/HP-38 or Ramshot Zip, Green Dot is a good alternative. It is particularly good powder for 40S&W as it produces lower pressure target loads with lighter recoil.

Herco is a flake powder sized comparable to Green Dot and meters with .1+ gr variance. It's burn rate is listed between Power Pistol and WSF. This thread covers Herco load development with 9mm jacketed/plated/lead bullets - http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=745656

Herco is a great powder choice for accurate 40S&W loads and particularly burns clean leaving even the inside of cases clean.


Hodgdon Universal, W231/HP-38 and Alliant Unique

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Unique is popular with many reloaders as it is versatile for most pistol calibers at high to full power loads. It meters with .2+ gr variance and while I tried to like it, since most of my loads are lighter mid-to-high range load data target loads, I prefer to use W231/HP-38 and faster burning powders that are able to produce accuracy at below high-to-near max load data. However, even if Unique was the only powder I had to reload pistol calibers, I would not complain.

Many claim Universal is Hodgdon's version of Unique as it too is versatile for most pistol calibers yet it meters better with .1 gr variance.


Winchester Super Field (WSF), W231/HP-38 and Winchester AutoComp

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WSF is the powder I prefer to load full power loads, especially for practice/backup/near duplicate factory JHP loads using bulk Speer Gold Dot HP and Remington Golden Saber JHP bullets for higher velocities it can produce. Walkalong likes N340 for higher velocity loads. Like W231/HP-38, WSF is also coated flattened ball powder that meters with .1 gr variance.

Some suggested Auto Comp is WSF with flash suppressant but as you can see from the close up comparison picture, the granules are smaller and meters with .1 gr variance. I like AutoComp for 9mm/40S&W full power loads.
 
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Below is comparison picture of W231/HP-38 and Sport Pistol. As Paul from Alliant Powder verified, it is cut extruded powder like N320 (Think thinly sliced rifle stick powder) - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/new-alliant-sport-pistol.816514/page-5#post-10599139

As OP Vihtavuori technical article on effect of powder granule shape on burn rate, chamber pressure and velocity, you can see the irregular shape of flattened ball powder W231/HP-38 on the left compared to more uniform granule size of Sport Pistol on the right. Considering Vihtavuori premise, more consistent the powder granule shape and size, more consistent the powder burn and subsequent chamber pressure build and resulting muzzle velocity.

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While these shot group comparison is not conclusive and requires further comparison range testing (especially at same 1.110" OAL), I am curious as to the possible potential from granule size consistency (And better metering as Sport Pistol meters with less than .05 gr variance compared to .1 gr for W231/HP-38). Below is 25 yard 10 round group of reference W231/HP-38 load with RMR 115 gr FMJ at 1.130" OAL

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And 25 yard 10 round group of Sport Pistol with RMR 115 gr FMJ at 1.110" OAL from my Sport Pistol work up. Looking at the circled 10 round group on the far right, could this be an indication of more consistent granule size? This among many other myth busting notions are things I want to verify once the machine rest for pistol/carbine is built.

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If you have ever seen the old SR-4759 it was a stick powder with a hole through the center longways for even more surface area.
 
Thanks for posting. I'm going to start reading the VihtaVuori links as soon as I post here.

Always wanted to try it. My go to powder for my 9 mm GSSF shooting has always been W231. All the Glock shooters at the GSSF matches were locked into a 147g bullet over about 3.6g to 3.9g (depending on the bullet) of N320. About the time I was going to try it the panic had set in and N320, and VihtaVuori in general had vanished from the market.

Dave
 
If you have ever seen the old SR-4759 it was a stick powder with a hole through the center longways for even more surface area.
Walkalong, I tell you, you learn something new everyday!

Thanks to ATLDave who made me dig up the Vihtavuori technical article on powder shape and burn rate, it made me approach powder selection from another perspective that I had not considered before ... more consistent the available surface area of powder granule, more consistent the powder burn. :eek:

I have noticed going through several containers of Promo that metering characteristics and accuracy has improved over the years (I can meter Promo as well as W231/HP-38 in my C-H 502 micrometer powder measure) as Paul from Alliant Powder verified to better "blending". While Promo flake size did not decrease, I noticed the flake shape shift from rough crinkly to smoother round. So if this "blending" improved the total surface area consistency, perhaps it improved the powder burn as well?

I have some old Promo that I can do comparison range test with 2 brand new sealed containers of Promo.
 
My go to powder for my 9 mm GSSF shooting has always been W231. All the Glock shooters at the GSSF matches were locked into a 147g bullet over about 3.6g to 3.9g (depending on the bullet) of N320.
While I used W231/HP-38 as USPSA match powder, I used W231/HP-38 for slower recoil impulse which I preferred for faster follow up shots not because it produced the smallest groups.

In my initial testing, Bullseye/WST/Titegroup produced smaller groups over W231/HP-38. Many match shooters preferred Titegroup over W231/HP-38 as it was less temperature sensitive and required smaller powder charges (When you load tens of thousands of rounds each year, a small drop in powder charge matters).

I think shift to N320 by some match shooters happened because they didn't like the hot and violent burning of Titegroup and N320 was cleaner burning than W231/HP-38 and later N320 was claimed "the" 9mm match powder by many ... until the Great Component Shortage hit and N320 became unobtainium during which time every known powder was tested for match shooting.

Enter Sport Pistol. I have a feeling management at Alliant Powder wanted to release a match powder in the Titegroup/N320/W231/HP-38 burn rate range as only thing Alliant had at those burn rate was Green Dot and I have never seen anyone compete with Alliant powders at USPSA matches other than Power Pistol (And you knew by the large muzzle flash).

If you are looking at N320, I would certainly consider Sport Pistol as growing number of match shooters are considering Sport Pistol the new N320 that burns cleaner and cheaper as indicated by this Alliant study of expelled powder residue - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...-performance-info-for-shot-011017-pdf.235432/
 
Great report bds,
Another interesting source of data is the chemical composition studies done in conjunction with the FBI. They hoped to determine the powder used by determining the residue after the shot.

Here's the webpage for their database

I like it because it shows the relative amounts of nitroglycerin in a pistol powder. Along with physical geometry, the amount of NG can strongly affect burn rate, progressiveness and residue of a powder. V-V powders and the old ADI produced Clays line of powders burn very cleanly as a result of using superior nitrocellulose sources but you can also "clean up" a powder by upping the NG concentration. This is the "protomatter" of the powder producing industry (with due respects to the Star Trek universe).

Example:
If you study the properties and all the historic load data of Bullseye, at first glance it looks like a super fast powder which is often placed above Red Dot on a lot of burn rate charts. But load data and empirical tests show that Bullseye actually behaves initially like Red Dot during ignition, then behaves more like Unique through the rest of the burn. That's why a lot of Bullseye loads are in between Red Dot (super fast) and Unique (medium) loads. Both Red Dot and Unique have fairly low concentrations of NG while BE is way up there in NG. This is my speculation as evidenced by the aggressiveness of BE powder on powder coated bullets and certain other plastics (Hornady and RCBS powder hoppers). It's no surprise that Power Pistol (BE-84) and BE-86 also have similar flake sizes and progressiveness to plastics while Clays, International and Universal do not.

my $0.02
 
Maybe, maybe not, they use deterrents as well as surface area to control burn rate.
That is true.

If you study the properties and all the historic load data of Bullseye, at first glance it looks like a super fast powder which is often placed above Red Dot on a lot of burn rate charts. But load data and empirical tests show that Bullseye actually behaves initially like Red Dot during ignition, then behaves more like Unique through the rest of the burn. That's why a lot of Bullseye loads are in between Red Dot (super fast) and Unique (medium) loads.
This is a good point as I believe typical laboratory burn rate testing is done at normal atmospheric pressure while reloading, we do places powder burn at different chamber pressures.
 
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I thought I read somewhere on the forum a while back that for some powders, the only difference was how fine it was cut, which gave a different burn rate, but were chemically identical. Maybe it was Bullseye and BE-86?
 
I thought I read somewhere on the forum a while back that for some powders, the only difference was how fine it was cut, which gave a different burn rate, but were chemically identical. Maybe it was Bullseye and BE-86?
Actually, if I recall correctly, according to Paul from Alliant Powder, "Bullseye or BE" formulation has to do with flake type granule and size, not burn rate.

If you look at the comparison picture below (with W231/HP-38 on the left as reference), Bullseye and BE-86 have same flake type powder granule, same size, and thickness (as far as I can tell, very thin wafer also like Power Pistol) but are vastly different in burn rate where Bullseye is much faster burning and BE-86/Power Pistol are relatively slower burning. However, there could be difference in powder density.

So in BE vs BE-86 case, I think it's not the flake size/thickness rather chemical composition that determines the burn rate. And as Walkalong posted, there's the addition of deterrent that slows the burn rate.

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BE & BE 86 appear to be stick powder cut into thin flakes, vs the "flattened ball" type W-231. I would love to know if that is correct, or if not, how they form it.
 
Yes, W231/HP-38 is flattened coated ball powder.

And as Paul from Alliant Powder verified, Bullseye/BE-86/Power Pistol are cut extruded powders.
 
If you look at Titegroup, that's a flattened ball powder.

From the forensics webpage I referenced in my earlier post:

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