Loads for home defense?

[kingcheese]

Yes, it takes what, 8psi to break a human bone? 12ga blanks are considered lethal at 3yards, if you doubt its ability don't use it, its what ever makes you comfortable, but don't tell me I'm wrong because of something you've been told all your life, do some tests , ill be doing some this weekend, and ill get some jelly out if i can get some

 

[beeb173]

if penetration were the end all be all we'd all shoot crossbows. imagine getting hit w/ 3 steel justin verlander fastballs at once. that's the energy of bird shot. imagine getting stabbed with dozens of ice picks at once, basically taking an ice cream scoop out of your body. that's bird shot. nobody that i've read has said it's more lethal than buck. what they're saying is that it's more than enough inside their particular dwelling. the arrogance of thinking the L1A1 double blind flight control money wad super load etc ammo is the best for everyone and anything less is suicide and anything more is genocide is at best close minded. get off your high horses.
IF YOU ARE INSIDE A HOME AND YOU USE A SHOTGUN ANY STANDARD LOAD WILL WORK!

 

[C0untZer0]

You don't have to be optimal with a shotgun blast, certainly you don't have to be perfect.

IMO, one has to be as perfect with a shotgun as with a a rifle because, at typical HD distance, a shotgun pattern is essentially about a 2" hole.

I wasn't talking about shot placement, I was talking about ballistics - I meant you don't have to have the best of the best of the best ammo in your shotgun for it to be effective.

For the 9mm there is everything from snake shot, Glaser Safety Slugs, EFMJ, FMJ to 147gr. JHP

Some of those loads can potentially get you killed because they are not effective. I think with handguns in general and probably more so for chamberings like 380 Auto, 38 spl, and 9mm - you need to have a good performing round, near optimal.

What I'm saying about the shotgun is that it is so devastating that the differences in effectiveness between #0, #1, and 00 Buck probably do not result in any real difference in the outcome of a confrontation because dead is dead - or incapacitated is incapacitated. Yes #1 Buck results in 30 percent more wound trauma, but at some point it might not make that much of a difference.

It's like saying falling 10,000 feet onto concrete is more lethal than falling 9,000 feet.

Double aught buck works, it's proven to work. So I can understand people sticking with that loading.

(even though #1 Buck is better )

 

[kingcheese]

Beeb173, i fully agree

 

[Skribs]

It's like saying falling 10,000 feet onto concrete is more lethal than falling 9,000 feet.

That depends. If you have a 9500 foot bungee (stretched), then I'd say 9000 feet is the much more dangerous fall.

if penetration were the end all be all we'd all shoot crossbows. imagine getting hit w/ 3 steel justin verlander fastballs at once. that's the energy of bird shot. imagine getting stabbed with dozens of ice picks at once, basically taking an ice cream scoop out of your body. that's bird shot. nobody that i've read has said it's more lethal than buck. what they're saying is that it's more than enough inside their particular dwelling. the arrogance of thinking the L1A1 double blind flight control money wad super load etc ammo is the best for everyone and anything less is suicide and anything more is genocide is at best close minded. get off your high horses.
IF YOU ARE INSIDE A HOME AND YOU USE A SHOTGUN ANY STANDARD LOAD WILL WORK!

We're not talking about lethality per se. You don't shoot to kill, you shoot to stop. If someone is hopped up on bath salts, simply taking a chunk of flesh isn't going to stop them. You need to cause sufficient damage to CNS to drop them right there, or sufficient damage to their circulatory system to drop the blood pressure in their brain.

So you're right. At 10 feet you don't need the Flitecontrol, because all that does is turn a 3" group into a 1" group. But you still need the penetration required to reach vitals in order to cause a physiological (involuntary) stop.

 

[C0untZer0]

OP question was:

Is there a preferred load like buck shot that is best for home defense?

In my opinion there is - it's #1 Buck

It's probably true that at HD distances FLITECONTROL might not make that much of a distance, but I'd rather have a tight pattern than a large one. Some people worry about overpenetration but don't seem to worry about those pellets that completely miss.

What if you have an intruder who while exiting your home decides to pump rounds into your house to cover his retreat? Or accomplices / lookouts on the outside of your home who start shooting into your house? Are you going to just let that continue hoping that no one in your house gets hit? Are you not going to fire back at the assailant(s) because your shotgun is loaded with ammo that is going to create 12" patterns at that engagement distance?

I don't see a downside to using a FLITECONTROL type wad. I think it adds to the shotguns versatility and usefulness.

I have to disagree that birdshot is going to work "IF YOU ARE INSIDE A HOME" My primary concern is not trying to prove a point, my primary concern is I'd hate to see someone read this thread and beleive that birdshot is going to be an effective SD/HD load, and actually load their HD shotguns with it. It might work when they need it, if the assailant's just decide to stop their aggression - but it might not work, and it's no where near as effective as #1 Buck.

 

[Skribs]

What if you have an intruder who while exiting your home decides to pump rounds into your house to cover his retreat? Or accomplices / lookouts on the outside of your home who start shooting into your house? Are you going to just let that continue hoping that no one in your house gets hit? Are you not going to fire back at the assailant(s) because your shotgun is loaded with ammo that is going to create 12" patterns at that engagement distance?

This is going to be very different for me, since I'm on a 3rd floor condo, but its an interesting point to bring up. However, I think most thugs that are going to run are going to RUN, and most thugs that are going to shoot back aren't going to retreat. Good reason to consider an AR over a shotgun, though

 

[Warp]

Actually, I think a crossbow would be a great choice if it was as easy to shoot and reload and if it held as. Uch ammo on board and ready to go as a firearm

Yes, it takes what, 8psi to break a human bone? 12ga blanks are considered lethal at 3yards, if you doubt its ability don't use it, its what ever makes you comfortable, but don't tell me I'm wrong because of something you've been told all your life, do some tests , ill be doing some this weekend, and ill get some jelly out if i can get some

I'm not going by what I've been told. I'm going by test results. Birdshot does not penetrate enough to reliably stop an attacker

 

[RaceM]

Three 50 cal. balls with #4 shot filler in a 3" magnum shell. Good to at least 35 yards (my testing distance).

Buck & ball, one 50 cal. ball and 00 buck, for my second choice.

Plain old Foster slugs for when I want to reach out and erase their carbon footprint.

 

[JShirley]

I can tell you from youthful experience that even a deer well-hit with a crossbow can take a long time to die. More recently, my landlord in VA lost 2 or 3 he shot with a crossbow. Simple through and throughs are what a bow gives. ANY expanding rifle bullet or even duty-caliber handgun is a better defensive choice, even for a single shot.

 

[Dave McCracken]

I've said this before.....

Birdshot can work if you're close enough. So can buck.

Trouble is, close enough with buck may be 25 yards, while with birdshot it may be 25 INCHES.

I cannot predict the distance I will engage targets in my next firefight, if there is one.

I cannot predict if it will occur inside,outside or both.

So, I want my shotgun loaded with a broad band load that works over a wide spectrum of scenarios.

Here and now, that's 00 of a proven load.....

 

[PonyKiller]

noble sport law enforcement 14 pellet OO buck, in the mossberg 500 imp cyl choke.

I know it will do the job if i need it.

 

[Erik M]

#4 highbrass in the auto, slug in the break action. Animals are more of a threat than anything here. I have a Austrian solution for 2 legged predators.

 

[ActionJax]

00 -- reduced recoil as it is only one less pellet at close to the same speed, and allows MUCH MUCH quicker follow-up shots. In the butt cuff I have reduced recoil slugs (JIC).