Mastering the Home Defense Shotgun

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Good Morning Real Shotgunners,

I recently purchased an 870 Express Deer with rifle sights and improved cylinder bore. My purpose was to use this as a home defense gun, maybe do a little turkey hunting or occasional 3 gun match. I know something about handguns (carry a .45 or .380 regularly), but don't know squat about shotguns. Do you have any suggestions for mastering this weapon?

I purchased Ayoob's "Stressfire II" on the combat shotgun. Have a couple boxes of bird shot and a dozen loads of buckshot.

  1. What are some other good shotgun books or videos?
  2. What should I practice at the range?
  3. Can you recommend a qualification course that would help me test or demonstrate my new shotgunning skills (humble as they are)?
  4. I am probably not strong enough for serious deer hunting (and literally could not pull a deer out of the woods), so is turkey hunting fun or a good choice for someone with limited strength and mobility?
  5. Can you recommend a 3/4 "Police Load" for home defense?

Thanks for your help.
 
1. Don't know.
2. Reloading, shooting on the move, malfunction clearing, shooting from offside.
3. Not sure. Shoot competitions geared towards the shotgun.
4. Deer in your area are about 100lbs on a good day. You shouldn't have a problem. Our deer are twice the size. Never been turkey hunting but small game and upland birds is very fun and challenging.
5. I prefer a #1 buckshot load in the 2 3/4 inch shells in both 12ga and 20ga.
 
1. Gabe Suarez has a shotgun vid, also Thunder Ranch.
2. With a shotgun reloading is key, but you dont need to practice that at the range. just get some dummy shells or filled snap caps.
3. no idea
4. anyone can deer hunt in my opinion, and a deer loses a LOT of weight when you gut it. also straps help a ton. frankly I dont think a shotgun is a good choice period for a person of limited strength and mobility. Of all the firearms it depends most on 'physicality'. Turkey hunting pretty much mandates a full or extra full <turkey> choke. you can do it with a imp cyl but you are going to have to call that gobbler STUPID close.
5. Really any reduced recoil load will work once you pattern it to your gun, they are all different out of different guns.
 
If you have an experienced shotgunner handy to instruct you, that would be one way to get started. Failing that, I'd suggest you start with a Hunter Safety course, or your state's equivalent, if you haven't ever had one. Safety First...

I'd suggest you look next at http://www.nrainstructors.org/CourseCatalog.aspx to see if there's an instructor near you teaching the basic shotgun class- there's a class locator at that site.

#1 thing is to absolutely 'groove' safety and safe gunhandling. That is critical. You have to be reliably and dependably safe in your gunhandling, muzzle control etc. or you are a danger to yourself, your family and innocent parties anywhere within range.

#2 thing is to learn to safely run your gun administratively. By that I mean to safely load, make ready to fire, fire, fire again, make safe, and unload the gun. Plain ordinary target shooting, shooting hand-thrown or machine thrown clays etc. will help with that. But you need to be fully familiar with the safe operation of your gun and capable of performing the steps above without problem in a non-stressful environment. That's 'learning to shoot' with a shotgun.

After you learn to shoot a shotgun, it's time to learn to FIGHT with one.

First take a gander at http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=396584. It would help to know where you are, but it isn't absolutely necessary. If I haven't covered your state in depth yet, let me know and I'll see what I can do.

The shortest way to climb the learning curve is at the hands of a good instructor. But you want to be ready for a class of this nature. To be ready for such a class, you need to have safety down absolutely bone solid, and you need to be able to perform the basic tasks of shooting your shotgun safely and dependably. If you are unsafe in a class with a professional instructor, that instructor will toss you out unceremoniusly. If you are unable to manage your basic gun handling, you will slow down your own learning process as well as that of the rest of the class.

The basics are just that- basic. Nail down the basics first.

Can you win a gunfight without professional level training? Sure, it's possible. The odds are you'll never have a gunfight to start with. And beyond that, the odds are that you can prevail with even minimum preparation. But what I usually try to point out in situations like this is that it's not the odds which matter. It's the STAKES. Think about what's at stake here.

Do you have a home defense plan that places all your family members safely under cover, with you and your shotgun between them and any possible danger?

Do you know when you can legally and justifiably shoot an intruder in your jurisdiction? Can you control yourself well enough not to act out of raw fear?

Do you know how best to establish your household defense in order to give you the edge in the event of an intrusion?

Do you know how to conduct yourself in the aftermath of a defensive shooting?

You can learn those things to a degree on your own, from books, videos etc. But working on your own or with a friend cannot put the pressure on you that a good instructor will, as your skills are built one step at a time. Gunfights = pressure to perform. IMHO it's better to first experience that pressure on the flat range than with lives at stake.

It's better to learn things like the fact that a 12 gauge shotgun shell will go into a magazine tube just as easily backward as it will forward on the flat range, even if it does make you look like an idiot in front of a class as you take your gun apart in order to clear the jam it caused.

It's better to miss an easy shot on the flat range because you rushed it or didn't follow through when a little pressure was on than it is to make those mistakes in real life.

It's better to short-stroke a pumpgun in a multiple shot drill in a class than in a gunfight. And so on.

I'm a firm believer in training. I spent years as an EMT, on a volunteer basis. I was trained to state standards, like everyone else who wore that blue star. I spent a few years as a volunteer fireman. Likewise- training according to state standards, just the same as paid firemen. I spent a big part of my working life training soldiers- not just any soldiers, but Special Forces soldiers. They don't just put on a uniform and a funny green hat and take off for parts unknown- they get trained first.

Can you do what you need to do without ever parking your butt in front of an instructor in a formal class? Sure, it's possible. But ask yourself- is 'possible' really the way you want to go at this?

Stay safe,

lpl
 
Dear Mr. Lapin,

You ask some good questions--most of which I can answer with yes. Your main point seems to be "get some professional instruction." Great idea.

I checked the NRA link you thoughtfully provided, but apparently (and this was a HUGE surprise to me), there is not an NRA certified shotgun instructor within 300 miles of my home. I checked your wonderful resource list and noticed Mass Ayoob and Clint Smith (I've had 2 LFI handgun classes and enjoy Smith's articles and videos), but they did not have any shotgun courses coming up any times soon. I also checked Gabe Suarez (mentioned by another poster), he DOES have a 2-day advanced class a full day's drive from here. However, I'm a little worried about my physical ability to handle 300 rounds of birdshot and 50 rounds of buckshot plus two full days of driving.

Soooo, the Thunder Ranch video are lookin' pretty good to me right now.

Thunder Ranch Store.

I wonder if I'm the only one looking for this type of instruction. Gosh, the 12 gauge doesn't kick THAT much! Maybe my local gunshop has a suggestion or a connection with someone from the local PD. That would get me some personal hands-on time.

Thank to everyone for the suggestions (so far).

Best wishes,
Commander Crusty
 
I took my first defensive shotgun course on sunday, and wow it was humbling. In fact it is causing me reassess my choice of a 12 gauge pump as a go-to defensive weapon. I found that I short stroked the gun consistently after 3 or 4 consecutive shots. Granted my 870 is still new and the action is stiff, but it really opened my eyes, and I don't know if I can restore confidence in my ability to operate it properly. At the risk of "wimping out", I'm considering a switch to a semi-auto shotgun, carbine, or just sticking with my handgun.

I also learned that I need some gloves for these typse of courses, as after a few hundred rounds, many in rapid fire, my left hand was blistering badly, which certainly didn't help with cycling the pump authoritatively.

Shooting while moving, using cover, supine, weak hand only shooting/pumping, and communicating with a group while shooting are all radically different concepts than sitting in a shooting lane, firing at a stationary target or shooting a clay pigeon.

Also, full strength 12 gauge slugs, even the 2&3/4" variety, are pretty brutal to shoot from a bench rest (this is what we did to get our "battle zero", from 50 yards, at the beginning of teh course).
 
LoneStarWings,

Where did you take your class? Care to write up a complete after-action report and post it?

As far as running a pumpgun under stress goes, I have found it worked better for me to 'groove' a two-count motion- all the way back to the stops is Count One, then all the way forward till the bolt locks is Count Two. Making sure Count One doesn't stop until the bolt stops moving back is the key to avoiding short-stroking.

Software trumps hardware, remember?

lpl
 
I took the class at "civilian arms training" in Chino, California. I'll be happy to write a review of the class for THR, I'll work on that tonight. Overall it was a positive experience.

I agree that software trumps hardware, and I'm pretty sure it was completely operator error in my failures to fire. I guess the software and hardware have to be compatible, but I'll probably only get a chance to "re-program" myself at a course like this once a year or so. With that said I'm not gonna rush out and get new equipment. I'll run at least 1k rounds through my 870 and see if i can work out my problems before I give up on it.
 
Get a long vent rib barrel and start shooting clays or wing shooting with it. Put thousands of rounds down range on clays and the gun will become part of you, it'll be instinctive. Get with and experienced clays shooter, too, and let him point out to you how the gun should fit and shim it to fit, whatever it takes, but fit is important.

A gun that collects dust is not a gun that the owner FEELS when he shoots. When you mount the gun, it should be on target without use of sights, just pointing down the rib. This will promote speed and accuracy and just like archery, shooting a LOT is the only way to learn that. Once you are one with the gun, even those rifle sights won't get in the way.
 
Beware. Breaking clays is addictive.

MCgunner is right, though. Using the gun a lot, on moving targets, while having fun, will make you VERY confident in handling it -- and it's not a PITA either.

You break enough little discs moving 35 MPH at 35 yards away or more, and you won't be in the least bit worried about hitting a 180-lb. intruder across your bedroom.
 
BTW, you can take those tacticool urban warfare shotgun courses where you move and top up and shoot from cover and breach doors and kill paper, but you should learn basic shotgun marksmanship first and that's what clay shooting will do for you. After you know how to actually shoot and hit fast with the gun, then you can buy the black spandex ninja garb and go to spec ops courses. There are some things you can pick up in those courses, tips that can save your life, like how to look around a room from the door without stickin' the barrel in, that sort of thing. Those courses are fine, I just think most of 'em aren't set up to teach you basic marksmanship just like you need to know how to shoot and safe gun handling before you take a CCW course. That's not what the course is about. Some courses are better and more to your needs and some are more law enforcement oriented. You need to find one that relates to your needs. Me, I just shoot a lot and watch "American Guardian" TV and read a lot. LOL
 
Personally, I think that marksmanship with the weapon(s) in question, and tactical classes like that are different issues.

I learned a few things from playing paintball a couple times...

I'd rather take a tactical class using laser tag or somesuch. I can shoot my guns just fine.

Yes, I know that recoil, etc. are a factor, but I haven't had DEFENSIVE training.

That's what I'd want from the class: how-not-to-get-killed lessons. I think I learn best if I can get "shot" by a paintball marker, rather than waltzing around obstacles with a shotgun.

I can shoot just fine, and I practice a lot, since it's fun.

I'm also not lazy, so I don't just sit at a bench, or shoot my revolvers in SA mode, and think I can shoot the things well enough.
 
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Yes, I know that recoil, etc. are a factor, but in all seriousness, I am not SWAT-trained. That's what I'd want from the class: how-not-to-get-killed lessons.

Exactly. Most of those classes I see are for military/police applications. If I need my house cleared, I'll stay in my locked bedroom with the shotgun on the door and call 911. I watch that "American Guardian" show and read articles and pick up tips I think are useful to know, but to run around shooting up a shoot house, I really don't need to do that.

I'm pretty practiced at making shots over my off shoulder behind my back with both feet stuck in the mud, though. ROFLMAO! Between range practice and hunting season, I know my shotguns. But, if a guy wants to take one of these courses, I don't supposed it can hurt and it might be fun to somebody, I guess. I shot a lot of IDPA and thought that it was good practice, too. It taught tactical order if nothing else. Some of the scenarios were rather far fetched, to say the least, but it was big fun and that's why I was doing it.
 
I'm pretty practiced at making shots over my off shoulder behind my back with both feet stuck in the mud, though. ROFLMAO! Between range practice and hunting season, I know my shotguns.

LOL

Maybe there should be a special skeet division where you have to shoot that way.:)

If I were to be attacked by an aggressor with a shotgun, I'd be more afraid of a guy who brings home a lot of chukar but doesn't know about "tactical shooting", than a guy who's taken the best shotgun course you can buy, but doesn't do anything else with a shotgun.
 
Yeah, well, they COULD do that in sporting clays to make it more realistic. :D I was chatting to someone about having to shoot over my shoulder out of form once and he proceeds to tell me about proper foot position and how I should follow the bird with my body and I'm like, DUDE, you just DON'T get it!:banghead:LOL
 
I don't know if this would be too basic for you or not, but Remington has a presentation on their website covering the shotgun like types of shot, types of chokes and how they work, appropriate shot and choke for different game and more. The introduction does not have any information so you can skip that part of you want.

http://www.remington.com/safety/online_courses/sbc_begin.asp
 
I think the best way to learn how to kill things, is to kill things.

Hunting is the best way to get accustomed to carrying and using a shotgun.
 
I think the best way to learn how to kill things, is to kill things.

Hunting is the best way to get accustomed to carrying and using a shotgun.

Right. Too bad there aren't a lot of deer in my house for practice.
 
You don't need just deer, squirrels, birds, rabbits it all helps even clays. Shotguns were meant to be used on moving targets not just stationary cardboard.
 
What are some other good shotgun books or videos?
Check palidan press (www.palidan-press.com)

What should I practice at the range?
Shooting accuratly and reloading dont forget to top off the tube as often as possable

Can you recommend a qualification course that would help me test or demonstrate my new shotgunning skills (humble as they are)?
check with local ranges and gun stores for training courses in your area

I am probably not strong enough for serious deer hunting (and literally could not pull a deer out of the woods), so is turkey hunting fun or a good choice for someone with limited strength and mobility?
dont know dont hunt

Can you recommend a 3/4 "Police Load" for home defense?
Remington Express 2 3/4 00 9 pellet buck for the cheap stuff and if you want to spend the money Federal Tactical 9 pellet 00 buck with flight control wad (they also have a reduced recoil of this load) but you should honestly try a few different loading in YOUR shotgun to see what you can handle and what patterns best for your gun my mossberg has a tight pattern with the cheap remington which i can get at walmart in a 15 round "value" pack
 
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