Lon Horiuchi A Spokesperson For HS Precision ?

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Beatcop,

I know what entrapment is; and the agent who insisted Mr Weaver cut the barrel pressured him to do so - even after protests to do so by Mr Weaver.

The buyer was a federal agent, part of an organized plot to force Weaver to infiltrate the group(s) and be an informant.

That's entrapment by any sound definition.
 
Sorry, wasn't trying to slight you, or even re-try the case. The whole thing was a mess.

It's hard to believe H-S would be unaware of LH's rep. Definitely a bad business move.
 
I did not know about this before a quick bit of research, but all parties involved seemed pretty scummy. From what I've read, it sounds like the shooting of Vicki was accidental?
 
Email sent!

I usually do not use the words murderer, boycott, and disgust in the same paragraph!

Jamie
 
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I am not discounting your story of meeting Mr. Horiuchi, Deanimator, but what is it Horiuchi, said, did, etc. that gave you the impression that he would have been equally at home with a Japanese Kill and Rape Squad in Nanking pre-WWII as in rural Idaho killing white seperatists in cold blood?
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More than twenty years later, the sheer reptilian coldness of the man stands out.
 
Now, a boycott of HS Precision is definetely in order. But, in addition, I would say that they probably don't care that much about the civilian market.
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They sell a lot to other companies like Savage. When I emailed H-S, I told them that I was going to contact Savage and ask them to stop buying products from H-S. I'll bet that when their OEM sales start dropping off they'll care.

And the beauty of this is that you can hurt H-S without hurting your favorite gunmakers. Just tell them you won't buy any of their products which use H-S components. Savage for one buys from a variety of sources. Talking to Savage and just not buying their guns with H-S stocks doesn't hurt Savage. They'll stop buying from H-S and give somebody else the business, maybe even somebody new to the business.
 
Sounds like someone who really 'got into' to what his job meant in the military. And never left that mentality behind when he started in law enforcement.

BAD situation.
 
I have met Randy Weaver in person. For the record, he is no nut, and he has what could be accurately described as a racialist view. I.E., he simply does not want to mix with colored. A passive personal choice.
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As I said to somebody at lunch while discussing this yesterday, "Randy Weaver was a crazy racist White man who went off to the middle of nowhere and didn't bother any Black people... now what's the downside again...?"

I don't like Randy Weaver or his beliefs. At no time am I aware of him imposing those beliefs on anyone but himself and his family. That puts him lightyears ahead of Sarah Brady.
 
OH well sucks to be them, HS prcision is the "extreme shock" of the precision bolt action world anyhow. You only buy hs stuff because you don't know that better products can be had for less $$ from other manufacturers.
 
I don't think it will make the slightest difference to someone considering buying one of their rifles.
Let's say Krieghoff started printing a catalogue or flyer with an endorsement by Pik Botha. How many people considering a Krieghoff would suddenly say "Oh no, I'm not buying that shotgun because they have that man's name on their advertising"? I would guess not many. And no fair using Google to find out who Pik Botha is.
 
other endorsements brought to you by this marketing dpt

Oj Simpson for Buck knives

Ted Kennedy on the new line of Oldsmobiles

Osama Bin Ladin encouraging you to fly on a Boeing

Gavrilo Princip for Browning handguns

and

those retarded Sonic ads
 
The Clintons knew if Horuichi was prosecuted that they couldn't get their troops to work for them.
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It's not just the Clintons, it's all Big Government.

It's a way of making your "muscle" more effective. Promise them impunity and they can carry out their "duty" without restraint. Without fear of repercussion that the collateral damage they cause would normally bring, there is little to hold them from reaching their objective at all costs. The feds apply it to all their employees, from the FBI to the US Army; American military are exempt from prosecution by International Criminal Courts while the rest of the world is not.
 
It's not just the Clintons, it's all Big Government.

It's a way of making your "muscle" more effective. Promise them impunity and they can carry out their "duty" without restraint. Without fear of repercussion that the collateral damage they cause would normally bring, there is little to hold them from reaching their objective at all costs. The feds apply it to all their employees, from the FBI to the US Army; American military are exempt from prosecution by International Criminal Courts while the rest of the world is not.
__________________
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The same reason no one has gone to jail for crashing the economy.

Horuchi will be back to work for BHO, you can count on it. BHO has hired alot of the Clintonistas back.

jj
 
I don't like Randy Weaver or his beliefs. At no time am I aware of him imposing those beliefs on anyone but himself and his family.
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I happen to agree with you on this one. The killing a Federal Marshal thing is at least a little bothersome to me. In a nation of laws, you have to distinguish between fighting a law and fighting the men who enforce the laws.

Mike
 
Yeah Randy Weaver was the bad guy. The feds entrapped him on a weapons charge. Then tried to blackmail him into spying on some Aryan group. Then sent in their Jack Booted Thugs.Then snuck onto his property and opened fire without announcing themselves.

Yup he was a real hardened criminal. Why'd they shoot his wife, friend, and son again? Oh yeah they were after him for failing to appear in court. They always send federal swat teams out for that don't they?
 
The killing a Federal Marshal thing is at least a little bothersome to me. In a nation of laws, you have to distinguish between fighting a law and fighting the men who enforce the laws.
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According to the Weavers, the Marshalls did not announce themselves as Federal law enforcement agents before or during the first day of the seige. The jury that sat on his trial for the murder of William Degan agreed with Weaver's claim of lawful self-defense; they acquitted him of all charges related to the seige itself. While I do not condone the killing of law enforcement officers, any citizen in this country should possess a basic right to self-defense if the assailants could reasonably be perceived as engaging in unlawful assault.

Oh, and let's not gloss over the fact that it is a matter of public record that the Justice Department review that was conducted after the Ruby Ridge incident specifically identified Lon Horiuchi as irresponsible for his actions in shooting Vicki Weaver. It's not as if the .gov covered up the truth as much as everyone on the .gov side of things chose to hide behind the veil of sovereign immunity.

Any way you cut this, it comes up smelling badly. Lon is not the poster child that HS Precision should want as a representative or spokesperson or endorser.
 
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The killing a Federal Marshal thing is at least a little bothersome to me. In a nation of laws, you have to distinguish between fighting a law and fighting the men who enforce the laws.

unless they're shooting at you.
 
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The killing a Federal Marshal thing is at least a little bothersome to me. In a nation of laws, you have to distinguish between fighting a law and fighting the men who enforce the laws.

unless they're shooting at you.
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So you'd be OK with a gang banger shooting at a beat cop because the cop tried to arrest him for drug possession?
 
So you'd be OK with a gang banger shooting at a beat cop because the cop tried to arrest him for drug possession?
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Even gang bangers have a fundamental right to self defense. If the cop didn't identify himself/herself as a police officer and the gangbanger thought that he/she was being robbed, then yes.

We can't just remove people's rights because we don't like the cut of their jib.
 
taurasowner said:
So you'd be OK with a gang banger shooting at a beat cop because the cop tried to arrest him for drug possession?
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That is precisely the point - in a nation of laws, if a corrupt officer tries to arrest someone improperly, the person being arrested get his/her day in court. If the officer is in fact acting illegally, then the office can be arrested and tried.

Fighting charges in court is the appropriate course of action. If the person being arrested decides to make it a battle of force - then law enforcement must win the action. Every time someone shoots a federal law enforcement office, should the government just walk away, if the shooter claims that the shooting was justified?

Had Randy permitted him to be arrested, his wife would be alive today, the Federal Marshal would be alive, and Randy would have had his day in court - where he might have prevailed.

Mike
 
That is precisely the point - in a nation of laws, if a corrupt officer tries to arrest someone improperly, the person being arrested get his/her day in court. If the officer is in fact acting illegally, then the office can be arrested and tried.

Fighting charges in court is the appropriate course of action. If the person being arrested decides to make it a battle of force - then law enforcement must win the action. Every time someone shoots a federal law enforcement office, should the government just walk away, if the shooter claims that the shooting was justified?

Had Randy permitted him to be arrested, his wife would be alive today, the Federal Marshal would be alive, and Randy would have had his day in court - where he might have prevailed.

Mike
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That pretty much covers the whole incident to me. Court is where you settle your disputes, even disputes with LEOs. If you start shooting at the scene, all bets are off and if you or someone you love gets shot, then it's your fault. Randy weaver killed his wife.

*and before someone says "they shot his dog first", you need to sit back and do a big reality check. If you think the death of an animal is worth shooting human over, you need to either be in jail or in a psychiatric ward right now.
 
Research or remember the case and you will find that not only did Weaver win the case but the federal government awarded him
$100,000 and each of his daughters a cool million dollars. They did this so they wouldn't have to admit in public what they ILLEGALLY did. The most punishment handed out to FBI personnel was censureship and 15 day suspensions. Horiuchi ( did I spell that right) received no punishment at all. After all he only shot an unarmed woman in the face while she was holding a dangerous baby and standing in the door to hold it open for Randy to run in the house. It was also learned from the little info that seeped out that the FBI people had talked about her being the glue that held the family together and they then decided that she indeed needed to be killed if things didn't go exactly as planned. Nice huh! All you guys that don't think a federal officer or agency will run over your rights or plant evidence better wake up. Why do you think they wouldn't let the Waco fire department in to stop the fire and they instead bulldozed every piece of the structure into the fire? Never mind that some of the FBI video tapes also just some how disappeared.
 
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