Long Range Gun?

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learningman

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Boise Idaho
I am looking for a gun to really reach out there. At present I live in Eastern Montana and some of the distances to target can really get quite long. I have been doing some looking and came acrossed the ultra mag's that Remington has out. The 7mm ultra mag really caught my eye. I know that the 7mm is a great round, but I know nothing about the ultra mags. I also saw that they offer three different power levels for the 300 ultra mag. What are some of your thoughts on the ultra mags. I'm especially interested in the 7mm ultra. I will mainly be using this gun for deer and antelope,with the occasional elk hunt. I don't really have any need for anything bigger than a 30 caliber so the 300 would be the biggest I would ever need (at least for the time being). Are the ultra mag's a good bet or should a guy go with something different such as a 264 win mag or just a regular 7mm. I really liked the Remington Sendero which is chambered in all three of these cartridges. Any help would be great, maybe someone has a different direction I could look onto.
 
Hitting game animals beyond 300 yards is more a matter of one's skill than it is the cartridge. Shooting at long range from a hasty rest position requires a lot of practice to be able to be confident of a hit. Not being confident = unethical hunting.

A .30-'06 or a .300 WinMag is plenty enough gun to kill an elk at 500 yards, but being able to hit that vital spot on the animal is where the skill comes into play. Being "all married up" with one particular rifle makes a big difference, as well--and that only comes from many hundreds if not thousands of rounds of practice.

The main problem with wonder-thumpers is that your shoulder goes to complaining if you practice enough to be really, really good at it. Those cartridges are for moving up to after you're already expert with "standard" stuff. :)

Art
 
I fully understand that no matter what rifle or cartridge you have it is only as good as the person pulling the trigger. I have done alot of shooting over the years and while I'm may not be snipper material I am confident in my abilities. I should have mentioned in my first post that I shoot a 300wm at present. I am still interested in something different and have developed a curiousity about the ultra mag's. I apologize for any confusion. My interest lies in the Remington Sendero in one of the rounds available in that rifle. I like the setup, it looks like a good rifle to put a bi-pod on and be able to take some good quality long range shot's. So what I'm looking for is the pro's and con's of the ultra mag's. Recoil isn't a concern for me, I don't mind the kick. Recoil is just one of the demons we all have to face with the bigger rounds. Thanks
 
Can you hit a 20" square at 1000 yards, now? On the first round? How about a 10" square?

That is well within the capabilities of 300WM - or 308 for that matter.

If not, spend more time practicing. A more powerful cartridge won't improve your ability to make hits.

-z
 
Yes, if it really is a thousand yards and you know it and are set for it. If it is really 950, you will shoot over by more than two feet.

If you think it is 500 and it is really 550, you will be under by about that ten inches.

Which is why long range hunting, sniping, and unknown range target shooting are a far different matter than standardized ranges... which are plenty tough for me.
 
.

How about a .50 ?

If you're a good shot you could take a groundhog at a mile, easy.

/sorry.:)
 
Ok maybe I've led everyone here astray with my question. I am not looking to shoot out to 1000yrds. I am not shooting competetion, I am trying to get some information on the new ultra mag's to determine if they are something that might fit not only my needs but my wants. I fully understand that practice, pratice, pratice is the only way to make good clean kill shots every time you pull the trigger. So let me take this in a different direction. I am looking for something different to shoot. I have a growing interest in the ultra mag's especially the 7mm ultra mag. I'm not really looking to shoot any further than the 300wm just for a different pill for my ailment, the shooting bug. Maybe I'm odd but I like the long action calibers, this is not a dig to any certain round. I know that I will need to put alot of rounds through whatever gun I purchase to become good with it. So here it is. Does anyone have any information about the ultra mag's specifically the 7mm. I have used the 300wm in a Ruger No. 1 for the last 8 years. I'm not really looking for something better just something different. Its really a matter of personal choice and looking for information. I do appreciate all of the information and thank you.
 
1. How long will be your longest ethical shot at game?
2. Do you reload?
3. Are you gun/recoil shy?

If you do not reload, I suggest you stay with a more "standard" round. By standard, I don't mean the flavor of the month "uber ultra mega mag". A 300WinMag or 7mmRemMag will suit you fine. Both are relatively flat shooting, easy to find ammo for and far more capable than I am.
 
i have a couple 7 rum's... outstanding cartridge for delivering the goods at distance.

also, check into a 338-7rum (338 pill on a 300 or 7 rum case).

the 7mm bullet has outstanding bc's. other alternatives to the 7 would be the 6.5's (6.5-284, 264 win mag), and the best, 338 (338 lapua, 338 rum, 338 win mag, 340 wby).
 
A good laser rangefinder is $400. Practice enough to be confident you're ranging the right thing and drop estimation is out of the picture.

The hard one is windage. A super magnum doesn't help as much there as you'd think. The only thing you can do is practice, practice, practice at reading it.

10mph, 90 degree drift at 500 yards using published BCs.:

.308 175gr SMK @ 2600 21"
.270 130gr Hornady SST @ 3200 17"
7mm RM 140gr Nosler BT @ 3300 15"
7mm STW, UM 162gr SST @ 3300 13"
 
Learningman,

Do you really want to learn the fine points of long range shooting? Buy a decent bolt action .223 and do some prairie dog shooting and you will get first hand knowledge of the art. I have been to South Dakota several times and to your beautiful State of Montana to shoot the little critters. A 8-10" dog at 350 yds in a cross wind is a real challange and the best way to learn range, wind and the fine art of trigger control. Think about it, it's a hoot, a lot of shooting without breaking the bank.
 
The Sendero is a heavyweight. Not for trudging the mountains. Made for the Senderos and elevated hunting boxes. Not my platform for mountain hunting. That #1 is better for that.
 
I have a 223 in a Smith and Wesson model 1500 that I have uesd for deer hunting for quite a long time. I used primarily on the number of ranches I have access to around the Great Falls area. I used 55 grain ballistic tip bullets and the gun was deadly. As I said earlier the shooter has to do his/her part. I did that when I shot the 223 and I still do when I shot my 300wm. I sold my 223 last year and I do plan to get another. So great varmint hunting here. I think I need to say that it's not the art of long range shooting that I need info on. I have made long shot's with my 223 and this year I shot an el in the Missouri Breaks on a depredation hunt at a range finder confirmed distance of 308 yards. On shot and she dropped like a wet towel. Now I agree that the Sendero wouldn't be the ideal hunting rig to pack around in the mountains, but is it a good rifle? From what I've been able to find out about it(which is minimal so far), is that it's a good set up for the "long range" shot's when one has time to set for it. The animals I hunt here seem to know when hunting season begins and they stay far away from poeple, can't imagine why. I really don't have that much of a problem decifering range, I do own a range finder. Thats not the point. What do you know about the ultra mag's. I spend alot of time at the range putting bullets down range in a variety of positions. Being a stay at home dad gives me lots of range time and I try to use it as much as possible. And fineredmist you are correct prarie dogs and gophers are way to much fun to shot at. I've been shooting them since I was a kid. So about the ultra mag's, anyone?
 
So to limit myself to Learningman's actual request, I submit the following;

The 7mm RUM will likely never achieve the popularity of the 7mm Magnum or for that matter the .300 Win mag. Simply put, the flattening effects (2-4" at most reasonable ranges) on trajectory by increasing velocity come at the cost of much greater powder consumption and little if any increased terminal effect. Sort of like the Weatherby's, sure they are faster than just about anything in their respective class but they really can't do anything noteworthy compared to the more "common" "standard" cartridges.

A substanitive reason to avoid the whole "Ultra Mag" thing is that the brass can't readily be formed from existing cartridges which means that when they fade from popularity, you'll be royally screwed as a handloader/shooter.

What is unclear at this point is what would you consider your maximum range? The continued nonsense about B.C. as it applies to hunting rifles that are most frequently used at sub 200yds is not a meaningful to just about all hunting cartridge debates. Yet when you stated "really out there" shots it leads the debate towards truly long range shooting (600yds+). At this distance, the retained energy of the bullet will preserve velocity at range. The two most influencial factors in evaluating would be the B.C. and the bullet weight. Given that you'll be using hunting bullets, the BC WILL SUCK and once again, is a pointless measure in hunting cartridge debates. So now you're down to bullet weight where the 7mm falls short compared to 30 cal and 338 caliber offerings.

The thing that most high velocity minded folks ignore is that higher velocities only change the trajectory curve by a few inches, if you're taking a long poke you'll still have to compensate for range. Most if not all shooters can't honestly determine if they held that 2 inches lower or higher on their target. Nearly every cartridge vs. cartridge debate staged the situation in favor of the higher velocity round by making the zero for the magnum farther than the standard. The they talk about how the standard has dropped several feet at 300 yards whereas the magnum is going strong only 100 yards away from it's zero. Yet when compared with equal zeros the difference is unispiring, especially when you consider it costs 30% more to shoot the magnum.
 
Bingo!!! The fog is beginning to clear. I am fairly new to this site so please forgive me if my question was to vague or worded in a skewed manner. The last post answered alot of the things I was wondering about. So far the advantages are being outwayed by common sense. My long range I was referring to was to around 400 to 450 yards depending upon conditions. I am not an unethical hunter and will do all I can to avoid hunting in that way. I have walked away from alot of shots for that reason. I like a good clean kill. So out of the three listed in the last post what would be the most recommended. The 7mm, 300wm, or a 338wm? Or did I open up a can of worms thats not easily closed? To all, thank's for the info.
 
The 300 win mag is probably the most useful of the three. I base that on bullet weight, commercially loaded ammo availability, cost, and that most/nearly all animals hit by it wouldn't know the difference between it and the others at 450 yards. Plus the 300 win mag is the only one of the three I know of to have match ammo loaded for it (Remington).
 
Ok rockstar another question for you. I like a 26 inch barrel on my magnum that I have now. But it seems like it's getting harder to find rifles in the magnum calibers with a 26 inch barrel. What rifles other than Browning and Remington have the magnum rifles with a 26 inch barrels. I love my No. 1 just looking for something different right now. How much does having a 24 inch barrel affect the ballistics on a 300wm? I like the looks of the Remington's (and so does Remington $$$) but have heard grumbling's about the quality of them as of late. What's the good word?
 
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