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Long Range Rifle/Scope/PRS question(s)

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by Walkalong, Dec 21, 2018.

  1. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator

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    Yea, it's that kind of rifle, no doubt.
    Heh, yea, barrels are of course a "wear" item.

    When I shot Benchrest fire forming was a small task, as we used a small batch of brass over and over, it didn't waste much barrel life.

    That's a thought all right.
    My first thought was to sell it to help pay for the Impact, but decided to set it up for my nephew Sam who wants to shoot with me. He is going to go with me to Alabama Precision on the 20th. It will be nice to have two rifles instead of one. I am really impressed with the Vortex 5-25x50 PST Gen II I got on sale, and it fits the Seekins well.

    The Seekins is a nice rifle, it just simply is not an Impact, but then it costs half as much as well. I played with the MPA tool and "tweaked" one
    of the AIAW mags this evening, not sure if I helped or hurt it, but the rounds sit a bit higher. I have them marked with a red and a white dot.
    I have another AICS 3902 ordered for it and I know it will be fine if the AIAW mags don't pan out.
    [​IMG]

    I loaded 20 more rounds this evening, going to go shoot with my nephew and a new friend at work who has been taking me shooting.

    I could use a scale that is more sensitive than my Gem Pro 250, but it works, and a funnel that fits 6MM brass better, I used to drop straight
    out of the measure into 6PPC cases.

    There were zero pressure signs on the primers, unlike the very flattened primers of the Federal & Hornady 6MM Creedmoor ammo.
     
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  2. MCMXI
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    MCMXI Contributing Member

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    I know very little about the Dasher or fire forming it so I was looking on 6mmbr after my earlier post and learned a little more about it. I think I'll stick with the 6.5x47 and 6.5 CM but I look forward to following along as you get the Impact dialed in. Congrats again on such a nice rifle and setup.

    https://www.6mmbr.com/6improvedform.html

    I wonder how long it'll be until your nephew wants to take the Seekins off your hands.:D I've had three of the Gen I PSTs for quite a few years and really like them so I can imagine that the Gen IIs are a step up. I'm really liking the two RAZOR HD Gen IIs that I bought recently. The ATACR should show up this month and it'll be interesting to see how it compares to the RAZORs. Now I need another rifle for the NF NXS 3.5-15x50mm F1 that I've had for seven or so years. It's a great scope in need of a home.
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2019
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  3. Varminterror

    Varminterror Member

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    Impact sells “burner barrels” for their actions. Ready to go, just not fancy painted/finished, meant for guys doing a lot of banging. They aren’t “cheap” by any stretch, but they’re drop in and less expensive than many other custom barrel options. I know a couple guys who will mount those up (assuming chambered with the same reamer) and fireform.

    I know a lot of guys who use false shoulders and shoot 1day regional matches to fireform their brass too though, and hold the big fireformed batches for national 2 day events.

    One thing I noticed with PRS shooting vs. other types - we shoot a LOT of rounds, and need a LOT more brass. I really want 500pc of brass for my match rifle. 2 day events are 200-250rnds, which means I want 275-300rnds to let me do my velocity curve conformation, zero confirmation, and have at least a spare mag handy, and two match savers on my rifle. Of course, if you have two big matches on back to back weekends, it gets rough to load fast enough between. Even not going back to back, it’s nice to have a bit more ammo on hand - say you run a practice 1 day regional event the weekend before a 2 day event, plus maybe 50-100rnds of practice and DOPE confirmation in the 2wks leading up, that might be 400-500rnds, and living hand to mouth with the minimum 250rnd batch is just tough to manage.
     
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  4. MCMXI
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    MCMXI Contributing Member

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    @Varminterror, are you always able to police your brass after a stage? Do you lose X amount per match?
     
  5. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator

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    lol.....we'll see how it works out.
    Sure considered doing this the 20th. While the brass is tight, it chambers easily enough to not be an issue. I'll likely have enough fire formed before then though. I have 200 brass and 200 bullets to start (I K of CCI-450s)
     
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  6. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator

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    I would assume there is going to be some loss, if for no other reason to keep things moving. But then I read talk of folks picking up tons after a match. Dunno. I assume I will be losing some.
     
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  7. Varminterror

    Varminterror Member

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    Every match I have been to, we police brass after every stage for every shooter.

    Which is really to say, after you finish your stage, you pull your mag and insert your chamber flag (new enforcement this season, always a good idea though), and then one of your squad mates walks over and hands you your brass. Maybe 5 times total out of a 10 stage day with 6-10 shooters on squad will a full minute be lost between shooters because 3 guys are looking for that one last piece of brass. Just a matter of how squads are ran. A couple guys on glass backing up the RO on spotters, next in line prepping his gear, guy just finished shooting writing his stage notes, another guy might be timing for the RO, everyone keeping an eye on safe movement with the rifle, someone walking around with a Kestrel and prepping his range card for the stage, and someone in the mix shagging brass. As you rotate through the squad, those roles rotate.

    I plan to lose between a few and a handful each match, but if I lost more than 5 at a match, I’d be rather surprised - and it would only be because the match was in an ad hoc set up in a pasture where brass got lost in grass or between rocks on a “natural” obstacle. I haven’t yet lost a piece this season in 6 matches.
     
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  8. Varminterror

    Varminterror Member

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    Leaving brass behind isn’t the same as losing brass. Lots of guys leave it behind

    There was an entire squad at a big match we hosted at my home range last month, none of them picked up their brass. It was certainly a talking point among other squads - guys were jealous of the squad who came behind them and picked up a few full sets of once fired brass!

    A surprising number of guys use factory ammo, and some guys will leave it lay as they run their brass “it’s last firing,” so there’s usually a bunch left around. The piles of the “onesie, twosie” pieces that we usually actually lose, not leave behind, often get piled up near a corner of a stage area, so a guy can walk back by and see if any of their stragglers made it to the “lost and found” piles, then after that, usually someone walks home with a bunch of new brass. Courtesy would say to only take your particular brand and chambering, but I know some guys just grab whatever they can and either scrap or resell batches when they get enough.

    But losing brass is pretty rare. Be a good squad mate and pick up for others, it encourages them to shag for you. Some stages, you’ll see a guy kneeling beside a mud puddle to catch brass in a ball cap instead of letting it drop in the mud. Tires are also notorious for swallowing brass, so most I have been to have started adding mesh over the hole, and if there isn’t, SOMEONE is diving in there on every squad to recover brass before the squad moves on. Just the stuff you’ll notice.
     
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  9. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator

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    That will be nice, it isn't cheap surplus 5.56.
     
  10. taliv

    taliv Moderator

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    I’m glad to hear that’s gotten better. I used to lose between 10 and 30%. Would need at least 1000 pc to get through like 10 matches in a season. And before the prs when matches were outlaw the matches were cooler lol. Blind stages. Shooting out of helicopters. Gap grind type stages where it wasn’t as easy to run squads
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2019
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  11. Legionnaire
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    My thoughts exactly. Very glad it's a sticky, though. Good info throughout!
     
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  12. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator

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    Well, I did mention it (linked to it) in the first post, as I was lusting after that one all along. :)
     
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  13. MCMXI
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    MCMXI Contributing Member

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    But your path to the Impact has been somewhat convoluted. Thoughts of a Ruger, followed by the purchase of a Seekins, and ultimately an Impact. :D

    This thread got me lusting after another AI, which I got, and probably helped push me towards buying three new scopes! You have a lot to answer for @Walkalong!! :cuss: I kid of course!

    Oh yeah, even @taliv couldn't dissuade me from buying a couple more Spuhr mounts … because I like quality, I like options and I like convenience.
     
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  14. MCMXI
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    MCMXI Contributing Member

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    We need a summary page to show the setups of the members here that are scattered through this thread.

    Earlier in this thread we were sharing the weights of our various setups. This morning I was shooting a rifle with a 24" carbon fiber barrel (6.5 CM), Vortex Viper PST 6-24x50mm scope, Talley aluminum rings, a SilencerCo Omega 300 suppressor and a TAB Gear suppressor cover with a total weight of 8lb 15oz (the rifle weighs 6lb 5oz empty). I shot four 5-shot groups starting from a cold, fouled barrel with 1 minute per group, and 2 minutes between groups. By the 20th shot the barrel was hot for sure but no POI shift at all. Groups were .568 moa, .835 moa, .555 moa and .496 moa shooting Hornady 140gr ELD Match. I'm very interested in a lightweight, fast handling "tactical" rifle. If I can get the AW magazine to work with this setup I think I'll really have something, but at the very least I should be able to get the AICS mag to work.
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2019
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  15. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator

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    My nephew Sam and I tagged along with Jeff from work today and shot at the 1K range. I guessed at a velocity, got 7.1 Mil from Strelok Pro, and hit the full sized silhouette at 1K twice in a row, then Sam hit it. Then I ran two rounds over the chrono and got 2867 & 2861 FPS. I could not see or hear the hits, so I do not know where they were. We moved after that and shot at 330, 580, & 690 with hits there as well. The biggest challenge we met was a 12" plate at 690, but hit it multiple times as well. Missed the 6" plate there. (Think it was 6)

    So, 31 Grs of RL-15 in 6BR brass with Berger 105 Hybrids jammed into the lands and set off by a CC-450 primer was running around 2860ish at 94 degrees from the 26" barrel of the Impact Precision rifle.

    The edges of the primers are still well rounded like before they were fired with a small flat spot in the middle with round well formed firing pin indents. No sign of pressure whatsoever as far as the primer goes.

    I have checked some cases internally with a sharp instrument I use for that and there is zero signs of any rut beginning.

    This isn't one of the cases, it's an abused .308 case, but you get the idea.
    Rut in Kent's .308 Case #2 Pic 4.JPG
     
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  16. Nature Boy

    Nature Boy Member

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  17. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator

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    1 in 7.5.

    I started with RL-15 since it seemed popular and I have plenty. I have less than a half pound of Varget.
     
  18. Nature Boy

    Nature Boy Member

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    I would have thought you’d be getting more speed out of that load but I’d also suspect that your barrel will be speeding up as you put more rounds through it.

    I’m getting 2,920fps in my 6BRA with 30.8g of H4895 pushing 108g Berger BTs. I’m on my 5th reload of my 1st 200 cases and so far primer pockets are staying tight.

    You have the case capacity to squeeze more out of it if you wanted to.
     
  19. MCMXI
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    MCMXI Contributing Member

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    @Nature Boy, what's the difference between the 6mm BRA and 6mm Dasher? Both have 40 degree shoulders right? 6mmbr.com doesn't mention the 6BRA as far as I can tell. They talk about the 6mm Dasher, 6 BRX, 6BR-DX, 6 BRBS, 6XC and 6PPC … good grief!! :eek:
     
  20. Nature Boy

    Nature Boy Member

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    A couple of grains more of case capacity in the Dasher

    6mm-BR-vs-6mm-BRA-vs-6mm-Dasher.jpg
     
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  21. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator

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    I must be setting something wrong in the ballistic programs, because it is overestimating the mils needed. Not sure what yet.
     
  22. Varminterror

    Varminterror Member

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    Scope height correct?
     
  23. Nature Boy

    Nature Boy Member

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    That’s usually the tweak I make to the inputs on my calculator to get a new load to match the real world, but once I do that it’s usually dead on from there.

    Another thing to consider is elevation change from your shooting position to the target. Are you shooting down hill?
     
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  24. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator

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    As close as i can measure, yes.
    Pretty flat, but with the terrain it is hard to tell. I have played with that in the program.

    When we use the "Trajectory validation" (Strelok, don't remember what it is called in AB) and input the mils that work, the velocities it calculates seem very wrong.
     
  25. taliv

    taliv Moderator

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    Put your inputs and distance to target in here and let us use our calls to try to tell you how many mils to use
     
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