longe range target rifle

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jcvfdlurch

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I have became interested in getting a custom long range competition/target rifle. I am cosidering Surgeon Rifles as a possible builder. I would like it to be chambered in a extreme performance caliber. I know the 338 Lapua is popular for the application. I am looking for anyone who has any incite/advice on this topic. If anyone has any information on builders or calibers I would like to know more before purchasing a rifle. I want it to be suitable for 1000 yd shooting.
 
forget 338LM. it is a horrible cartridge to start on.

what you need to start is something that is cheap enough for you to shoot thousands of rounds in order to learn to read the wind, shoot from a sling and other positions, etc.

even if you've got millions of dollars in disposable income for ammo, and you need something that doesn't kick the snot out of you or require an enormous brake that makes everyone around feel like they're getting a concussion, so you don't leave the range with a headache after firing 100 rnds.

and you want something that's legal to shoot in NRA HP matches

something in 6mm or 6.5mm would be a much more appropriate
 
Thanks

I appreciate the incite on going with lighter caliber. I know nothing about 6mm or 6.5 other than my granddad has a Remington 700 classic in 6mm rem. I have reloading capabilities so that gives me a slight advantage on ammo cost. If any suggested 6mm or 6.5 variations I will research them. I would prefer a caliber that has available components reloading. I recently researched 408 cheytac only to find that components are proprietary to their company.
 
I agree, 338 LM is a horrible starter cartridge. Although 6.5 is great and my all time favorite bullet, you might want to start off with something more common. Like a 308. Do you plan on reloading? If so, then 6.5 should be fine, but if not, you should consider getting into it. Moreover, 308 match ammo is very easy to find. Of the 6.5 calibers, I would recommend 260, 6.5x55 or 6.5x284. 260 is my favorite.

Some other notable rifle makers include GA Precision and McMillan. There are probably a ton more though.

You may want to consider going with a factory rifle. I like the 5R from Remington. Don't discount Savage, they have a pretty decent target line in most of the above-mentioned calibers.
 
Reloading

Yes I plan on reloading reloading for whichever caliber i go with. I recently met a gentlman that had just recieved his Surgeon chambered in 7mm short mag which kinda got my wheels turning. I have been shooting since I was 4 and guns and shooting are some of my greater passions. I am very partial to magnum calibers. I have several in hunting rifles. I entertained the idea of building in a like caliber to my hunting rifles. I have 300RUM, 257 Weatherby, 338RUM,300win mag,7mmrem mag,264win mag,458win mag. I am very used to recoil but I know its a big differance between shooting targets and game. Targets hurt after a while. I will research the world of 6.5 and 6mm. I may check into wildcats as well.
 
.308 is easy to learn on, .260 is good if you reload, .223 is great if you have a rifle build customly to accept the 80 grainers according to some article I read somewhere, I have a .223 and a .308 and I'm set.
Also don't rule out 7 WSM before you read some reviews, but my vote is .260 rem.
 
I agree, a 338 lapua would not be a good starter. Lots of great cartridges have been mentioned. Conspicuous by it's absence though is the venerable time proven 30.06. It has a number of advantages. One is the ammo is plentiful from surplus to match grade for excellent to reasonable prices. It can be found anywhere in every store that sells ammo and lends itself extremely well to handloading. It also has a distinct advantage in long range shooting over the popular 308 in it's ability to fly heavier bullets i.e. 190, 200, 220 gr. at velocities that work well at ranges up to and including 1000 yrds. Heavy .308 bullets have the same basic BC as 6.5 or 7mm bullets but carry more energy due to there heavier mass. In a match grade rifle which would have a heavy barrel it does not beat the snot out of the shooter like the magnums do. Which means a person who is working on his shooting technique can spend more time pulling the trigger without dealing with the flinch factor that comes when shooting magnums. The barrel life for a 30.06 is excellent, rated in thousands of rounds unlike hundreds for the magnums. Just a few points for an old American classic that still can hold its own and some of the others too ;)
 
I guess this is where you really have to determine what you want. You want to shoot 1000 yards. The one decent thing about 1000 yards, is that a great rifle and a bad shooter looks just about like a good rifle and a bad shooter. If you are a bad shooter and want to learn, there isn't a huge need to move to a great rifle right off the bat. It won't hurt, but it may not help much either.

I would buy myself a decent .22lr and spend a ton of time at the 200 yard line. Practice that for a year and shoot a few thousand rounds. You'll gain a lot of knowledge and only spend a few hundred on midgrade ammo. I would spend $500 on a used target rifle from a few years back, $400 on a case of Wolf ammo, shoot for a year, sell the rifle for the same $500, and be out $400 for the experience of 5000 rounds at a relatively long range for the round's ability. Take what you have learned and build yourself the rifle you wanted and be a bit more able to actually use the rifle to it's potential.

Look at what shooting 5000 rounds of hand loaded .223 would run you. At that, you'll go shoot a barrel out, if not 2(for a match rifle, it won't be useless at that point, but won't be giving you scores like it started life). A good rebarrel runs an easy $500. A couple hundred cases, lets say 500 cases shot 10 times each. For cheap brass maybe $100, for Lapua $200. 5000 primers at $25/k would run you $125. For powder, lets just say you use Varget and run 23.0 grains (not real sure the load data for the ultra heavy .223 bullets). 7000 grains in a pound, 16.4 lbs of powder/5k rounds. $140/8lb jug x2 is $280. Say you go with the 80gr SMK. At the 500 round quantity you are looking right about $100. So for 5000 you would be pushing $1,000 worth of bullets. Let's assume you get your entire cost back out of the rifle itself, but with a rebarrel at the end of the year.

So $500 for the rebarrel, $100 for cheap brass, $125 for primers, $280 for powder, $1000 for bullets. That's $2000 and I tried to round those prices down for an optimum use. If you want to move up to say .308 prices of components seem to rise a good 30% from there. And this ignores the cost of reloading equipment and the time invested in making the ammo, which at 5000 rounds, is intensive.

If you go out and buy FGMM it seems to run about $1 a round. Even if you could find it for $0.60 a round, that would put you at $3000 worth of ammo and a $500 rebarrel.

I am all for you buying the rifle you want to buy. But, if you really have no experience with shooting rifles at long range, try a year/summer/whatever out with a .22lr. If you find you hate the game, you won't be out all the time and effort to have a custom rifle built, ammo bought, etc. If you find you love the game, then you have gained 5000 rounds of experience in doping winds, which will be a huge advantage. It isn't the same thing, but it is similar and at a minor fraction of the cost. The experience you take from case of .22lr will be worth more than a couple hundred rounds at 1000 yards.

But if it must be 1000 yards right now, I would got .260 or .243. Either will get there. They won't be the absolute best rounds to do so, but they are fairly easy to come by and with the right barrels/twist/loads should do just fine at those ranges.
 
I recently purchase the Savage MK II TR in 22LR expressly for the aforementioned purpose. It is an excellent analog to my Savage 1000yd gun in 260AI with a heavy fluted barrel, tacticool stock and tactical bolt knob. I was able to easily tune the trigger to about 1.5lbs. Standard velocity 22LR ammo will mimick wind dope and drop of match 308 out to about 220 yds. Here is a link to a page which has tables showing this.

http://www.6mmbr.com/rimfiretactical.html
 
I think you guys need to read before you answer...the OP has other magnum calibers, so this isn't his first gun.

If he can shoot a 300/338RUM...the 338LM isn't going to be that much different.

There are other companies that make the 375/408 Cheytac if you want a rifle chambered in those calibers.

No offense to the members on THR, but if you want information about ELR shooting...you need to join SH.
 
That may be true and all, but he also said he knows nothing of 6mm or 6.5mm which clearly suggests he hasn't given much effort into researching what is competitive today in long range shooting. I'm all for the guy buying what he likes, but I personally feel there is a lot of knowledge to be had before being able to control a 1000 yard rifle and just having the components thrown together does little good. But, if your pockets are deeper than the ocean, learning on a centerfire would be fun too.
 
I went the 6.5x55 route for LR match shooting. The availability of quality brass (Lapua) should be a consideration with whatever cartridge you decide on.

Don
6.5Swede1.jpg
 
FIRST, find out what range and format of shooting is available to you.
Is there a true 1000 yard range in your area?
What kind of matches do they shoot? There are different events allowing different rifles. Although many of them are shot side by side, I have seen F class rifles, match rifles, service rifles, and Palma rifles all on the line at the same time. But not every thing every time. So look around and see what appeals to you. BEFORE you spend money on a gun. It would reduce the Fun Factor to be the only F-Open scoped bipodded 7mm at a club that shoots mostly Palma .308s with iron sights and slings.
 
Save yourself a lot of trouble and expense and buy a good heavy-barreled Savage or Remington in 308 to learn both shooting and loading. You can reach the 1000 yard mark with a 308, with the right load and rifle. But you, the shooter, have a lot of work to do before you get to that point. Crawl before sprinting.
 
A .223 will reach 1000 yards too BTW. It just won't be very consistent due to wind affecting the bullets.

It's much more than just "wind affecting the bullets". You would have to have a VERY fast twist and shoot VERY heavy bullets, and even then, you will get your @ss handed to you by most other shooters that are using more viable 1,000 yard cartridges. In 7 years of participating in 1,000 yard F Class, I have NEVER seen a .223 used in the T/R class which is restricted to .308 and .223 cartridges. Now what does that tell you?;)

But I have read where people are shooting as much as 1200 yards with a .223.

Ah, but those are 1200 "Internet" yards.:D

Don
 
Don,
What do you think about 6.5 Creedmoor as caliber for long-range target shooting ? Will you prefer it over 6.5x55 swede ?
 
I'm new to the whole long distance thing. When I was trying to figure out what to go with I asked around and asked my gunsmith who is also an avid shooter. He recommended that I go with a .308. He mentioned several reasons. The first is that it is a very forgiving round and easy to find accurate loads for. The second is that selection of available components is wide. The last is that the barrel will last a good long time before I have to have it set back and rechambered. From what I understand, I should get something around 5000 rounds down the pipe without worries.

.308 is also easy to shoot. I'm a small guy and I go around 155lbs. I don't have any problems putting 150 rounds through my .308 in a range session.
 
Ah, but those are 1200 "Internet" yards.

Not really. Target Gun publication of the UK had some articles in the mid nineteen nineties on long range shooting. Test evaluations .223 and 308 were made out to at least 1200yds. One series of articles concern the 308 primarily ran from December 1994 issue to February 1995 with actual velocity measurements out to 1200 yds.
 
If you're wanting to spend some money on a good long range shooter, check out GA Precision. They are more Tac based, but great rifles.
 
Don,
What do you think about 6.5 Creedmoor as caliber for long-range target shooting ? Will you prefer it over 6.5x55 swede ?

CCCP,

Not really familiar with the 6.5 Creedmoor, but my criteria for any LR cartridge is as follows: quality brass (Lapua) available; good selection of quality match bullets; and capable of velocities of 2850 - 2950fps. In the case of a 6.5mm cartridge, that velocity would be with the excellent 139 -142gr match bullets.

Don
 
I appreciate the incite and look forward to more. I however feel I need to clarify a few things. I am not new to shooting. I shoot almost every weekend. I shoot with a group of freinds on a range set up on a freinds farm. We currently have targets out to 500yds and plan to extend it to 1000yds this spring. We compete among ourselves. When I purchase a LRT rifle and get comfortable with it I may or may not get into public competition. I understand that a lot of calibers of rile are capable of shooting 1000 + yds. I am looking for something that is not being pushed to its outer limits.
 
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