Look at this and learn!!

[FlyinBryan]

yes, we are relying on authority to argue for us while you on the other hand are endorsing the statements of a ammo reloading authrority,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,wait, ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,did i just say that?

nevermind

 

[Galil5.56]

He said he knew a guy who reloaded for his 300 WinMag, and "measured" the charge by using the empty case to scoop powder out of the container. Somehow he managed to get away with this practice for a while, but one day that guy touched off a round and it sent the bolt back into his face and caused a very serious injury with permanent damage. Now I don't know if that story is true, partially true, or total BS, but it certainly seems possible and it stuck with me.

Note, what I am about to write is not recommended, yet is true in certain instances and combinations:

Without knowing the propellant/bullet used, it is impossible to say definitively if he is wrong or right, but I am willing to bet you could scoop a 300 Win Mag case full of 5010, seat a 110 grain bullet and still be way under max SAAMI pressures.

I could cite a bunch of loads using smallish cases, very light bullets, and extremely slow propellants that would probably be bloopers. Now swing around 180 degrees and scoop a case full of Bullseye, add a 200 grain bullet and you now have a bomb. Lots of "Rifle powders" on the fast end would do the same, just not as spectacularly. Ever load Unique in 9mm trying to achieve safe, book max service loads... It comes very close to filling the case with a normal powder drop.

One specification I seem to recall about Trail Boss is the calibers they have data for, if the case is completely filled and a bullet seated, the resulting load will not exceed proof pressures for the cartridge.

 

[Navy joe]

Then there's the old chesnut about the load book saying 27 grains so the fella counted out 27 grains of powder, put them in the case and was sorely disappointed. I always thought that a fable, but the logic is in no way inferior to that demonstrated in the OP, so maybe it happened.

 

[strat81]

Yes, your sources are better than mine. It is completely unreasonable to assume that ATK/Speer would have an educated person answering e-mails.

Even if Richard Lee is right, his utterances of steel being reloadable are irresponsible because no mention is made of the special circumstances surrounding steel cases (which we all seem to agree on).

Asking me to prove why they are unsafe is as ridiculous as me asking you to prove why they are safe.

Hopefully the newbies reading all of this will make the smart choice.

 

[Matt-J2]

Navy Joe, when I first became interested in reloading a few years ago, I actually believed 27gr. meant 27 physical grains of powder. I had been shooting for a bit but I didn't pay attention to bullet weights or any such thing, I just made sure it was the proper ammo type and went on to fire it.
When I did read the bullet weight on the box, I actually thought it was the powder charge.
I've learned a bit since then, thankfully.

 

[fireflyfather]

Even if Richard Lee is right, his utterances of steel being reloadable are irresponsible because no mention is made of the special circumstances surrounding steel cases (which we all seem to agree on).

That is certainly an arguable point. I don't know if it rises to the level of irresponsible, but I certainly feel that he probably should mention those caveats, in the interest in safety. The only defense that immediately comes to mind is limited space/time to fully cover the issue (though two sentences worth of warnings shouldn't take up much time or space), and the information being of limited use to most reloaders.

Yes, your sources are better than mine. It is completely unreasonable to assume that ATK/Speer would have an educated person answering e-mails.

Sarcasm isn't necessary. The Speer lady pretty much admitted that she wasn't really an expert on your question, or at least, her response reads that way to some. I think a published reloading manual from a reloading tool maker (not his employee) is a better source than an email from someone who is working customer service with unknown qualifications.

Asking me to prove why they are unsafe is as ridiculous as me asking you to prove why they are safe.

You were the one making the original statement, therefore burden of proof is upon you. *shrug*

Hopefully the newbies reading all of this will make the smart choice.

I agree 100% that new reloaders shouldn't be trying this. Sometimes, however, I just don't sit idly by when someone makes a gross exaggeration like your original statement.

 

[TexasSkyhawk]

I'm not spreading misinformation, not matter what your anonymous Internet poster friends say. The cast boolits sight might be somewhat reliable when it comes to cast bullets and maybe commercial reloading. How many commercial reloaders are using steel cases? Georgia Arms doesn't. Black Hills doesn't. None of the gun show sellers around here sell steel-case reloads either.

Sorry, but this is just about where I draw the line.

The old-timers over at Castboolits.com have forgotten more about casting, reloading and shooting than most folks over here will ever learn. You have guys over there that were pioneers in various areas of reloading and handloading, bullet mould making, alloy mixes, powder charges for alloy loads, etc.

They don't need to quote internet or manufacture sources--they can show you the results of of what works and what doesn't firsthand.

As far as Wolf's reply? Hell, no, they're not going to tell you that their casings can be reloaded, and for a variety of reasons.

However, seeing as how Wolf is some of the sorriest so-called factory produced ammo I have ever shot in over forty years anywhere in the world, their credibility as anything even remotely appraoching "expert" is zilch with me.

My own views on reloading steel cases is "I don't want to ever do it." The views of some over at Castboolits (of which I'm a member and spend considerable time) is that our usual resources for shooting and reloading are drying up, getting more scarce, and for sure, getting more expensive. Therefore, best to be prepared to explore new avenues, ways and means to continuing to be able to reload.

I'm not a fan of steel cases for anything. Period. I think they're harder on guns, for sure can be harder on traditional dies, etc.

But who is also to say that Lee or RCBS isn't working on developing full-length resizing dies specifically FOR steel cases?

In the many years I've been reloading, I've found manufacturers of commercial ammo to be not so reliable at providing honest, objective information. The reason for which should be obvious.

Jeff

 

[Shoney]

On the subject of dipping the 300WinM case into powder. I have done extensive load development in this cartridge, and I would never dip-level-load it.

However, if you look at the data for IMR and H 4831, Retumbo and IMR7828, almost all list compressed loads. Of these the 4831's are around 51-53K psi while SAAMI max is 64K. It appears entirely possible to do the dip-level-load and get away with it. Again, won't do it.

Now lets talk 338WinMag. I did observe a friend dip his 338 cases in IMR4831, level across the top with a knife and stuff/crunch seat a 200 grain bullet in. They were amazingly accurate.

 

[fireflyfather]

The old-timers over at Castboolits.com have forgotten more about casting, reloading and shooting than most folks over here will ever learn. You have guys over there that were pioneers in various areas of reloading and handloading, bullet mould making, alloy mixes, powder charges for alloy loads, etc.

Oh, and I should add that a lot of them are hardly "anonymous", since they run businesses in the industry and their identities are well known. But I digress.

Whatever cases you are loading, a 20% overcharge is dancing with the devil.