Looking For a .308... Your Thoughts?

[Adam123]

Hello once again gentlemen. I am going to be purchasing a .308 rifle soon and a bit torn as to which rifle to purchase. I am very familiar with all of the AR-style .308s and quite like them, but recently, I am really leaning towards the European .308 battle rifles - in particular, the FAL. There is just something about these rifles that really attract me. I think that I'm drawn towards their seemingly simplistic and functional nature. Now, I am not trying to argue, nor do I care to argue with anyone as to which style rifle is better. Furthermore, I know very little about these rifles in comparison to the AR .308s, but really want to learn more. I'll be using this rifle as a open-sight fun gun/plinker. As I've already said, I am pretty familiar with the AR .308s, so most of my questioning is in regards to the European rifles.

Before I go any further, I would just like to say that purchasing from a good company that will stand by their firearm is a big concern of mine. There is much to be said about good customer service. So please keep this in mind if you are going to refer me to any certain manufacturer. Thanks.


What I would like to know:


What should I know about these rifles (FALs)?

What type/manufacturer should I look to acquire?

Are FALs currently being manufactured?

What can I expect to spend on a decent FAL?

Where can I learn/read more about FALs (any informative threads on here or other websites would be great)?


I have also been looking at the G3s/Cetmes.


As far as I have read, the H&K G3 are a great rifle, but a lot more than I would like to spend. For that reason, if I were to purchase one of these rifles, it would be a clone rather than an actual H&K.

How do Cetmes compare to the FAL?

Are Cetmes junk?

If not junk, where/what manufacturer should I look towards?

Where is there a good resource to learn more about Cetmes?

I know that this is a fairly long opening post, so I'd like to thank you in advance for reading and for any assistance that you may offer.


(EDIT - 4/19)


At this point in time, I am kind of going back and forth between a FAL and an AR-308. What info can you guys offer on the AR-308s?

Upon much deliberation, I am still considering AR-308s that accept FAL mags (RRA) and those that will accept the current production Magpul Pmags (Remington and Bushmaster). I am sure that some would frown upon someone choosing a rifle based upon magazines, but I am ok with people frowning in my direction. In all honesty, I am leaning towards those that will accept the Magpul mags. I'm not really big on spending $20.00 to $40.00 on steel Armalite mag. Conversely, I am also considering a RRA LAR-308 being that I can get FAL mags for $12.00. I guess what I am trying to do is speculate the future on these mags and, in my opinion, I am thinking that the Magpul mags will be the most common and have the best price (and will, most certainly, last the longest).

One AR-308 that I am considering is the Remington R-25. What should I know about these (good or bad)? I quite like the price in comparison to other AR-308s. I am guessing that they have better customer service than other manufacturers.

I am also looking at a couple of Bushmasters.

Keep in mind, I really don't want to spend more than $1300.00... considerably less would be even better.

I am also open to the idea of building one, but that seems to be a lot more difficult (due to the lack of parts interchangability) with a .308 as opposed to a .223 and not as cost effective. I just seems that everyone has their own configuration and very few brands are compatible with each another. I guess I am asking: What brands are the most interchangeable in the AR-308 platforms?...... and which are the least interchangeable?

What are your thoughts?

 

[451 Detonics]

What should I know about these rifles (FALs)?

They work very well, buy metric rather than inch, mags and spare parts are much easier to find.

What type/manufacturer should I look to acquire?

DSA is what I would buy, basic rifle is around $900.

Are FALs currently being manufactured?

In a manner of speaking, most are made with a new upper reciever with enough new US made parts to be compliant.

What can I expect to spend on a decent FAL?

About $850-900

Where can I learn/read more about FALs (any informative threads on here or other websites would be great)?

http://www.falfiles.com/index.php

As far as I have read, the H&K G3 are a great rifle, but a lot more than I would like to spend. For that reason, if I were to purchase one of these rifles, it would be a clone rather than an actual H&K.

How do Cetmes compare to the FAL?

The FAL has a longer track record bjut both work well, the CETME platform is better if you plan on optics.

Are Cetmes junk?

Some are, some aren't...you do need to know what to look for.

If not junk, where/what manufacturer should I look towards?

I would probably lean towards the PTRs.

Where is there a good resource to learn more about Cetmes?

http://www.hk94.com/hk/forum/32-cetme-rifles/

I know that this is a fairly long opening post, so I'd like to thank you in advance for reading and for any assistance that you may offer.

 

[BikerRN]

What should I know about these rifles (FALs)?

They work very well, buy metric rather than inch, mags and spare parts are much easier to find.

I agree that metric is the way to go, and what I would've said.

BikerRN

http://www.perfectunion.com/vb/handgun-tactics-training-competitive-shooting/

 

[ol' scratch]

Stay away from the CETMEs. Look at the PTR 91 if you are looking for an HK clone. I personally don't like any of the HK 91 clones because of what they do to brass, but I never had any problems with mine outside of flinging brass 20 feet to my right at the range.

I personally would look at the AR 10 (Armalite). There are more aftermarket parts available and they have a better reputation. I really have an issue buying a de-milled parts kit gun. The Armalite doesn't have that problem. Besides, you will want to start reloading to feed the pig and AR's are easier on brass. The Milsurp ammo market is pretty thin for .308.

 

[451 Detonics]

I personally don't like any of the HK 91 clones because of what they do to brass,

An inexpensive buffer keeps them from mangling brass. Also adjusting the gas regulator on the FAL can keep the brass nice as well as reducing felt recoil. The AR does not have an adjustable gas port.

There are more aftermarket parts available and they have a better reputation.

There are quite a few aftermarket parts for both the FAL and the HK, besides lot's of parts don't necessarily make the base gun better. Also there are as many junk AR platform guns out there as there are of the others.

I really have an issue buying a de-milled parts kit gun. The Armalite doesn't have that problem.

Not sure why that is an issue, the rifles made with them have a great reputation, I would stack my FAL up against any AR platform rifle.

The Milsurp ammo market is pretty thin for .308.

It goes in cycles, right now it is a bit thin but I am sure we will be back to plentiful before too long. Meanwhile there is still plenty of relatively inexpensive .308 out there. Not sure how this wold affect the decision as the same temporary shortage affect the AR platforms as much as it does the other two.

 

[Kachok]

If you want quality 308 for cheap roll your own. Cheap ammo is 7.62X39, 5.56X45 and 5.45X39. 308s are my fav but more expensive to shoot no doubt. The cheapest I have seen latley is $159 for 500 147gr non-reloadable brass 1980 NATO production. I have been itching for a FAL, M-14 or AR-10 latley myself.

 

[Adam123]

At this point in time, I am kind of going back and forth between a FAL and an AR-308. What info can you guys offer on the AR-308s?


Upon much deliberation, I am still considering AR-308s that accept FAL mags (RRA) and those that will accept the current production Magpul Pmags (Remington and Bushmaster). I am sure that some would frown upon someone choosing a rifle based upon magazines, but I am ok with people frowning in my direction. In all honesty, I am leaning towards those that will accept the Magpul mags. I'm not really big on spending $20.00 to $40.00 on steel Armalite mag. Conversely, I am also considering a RRA LAR-308 being that I can get FAL mags for $12.00. I guess what I am trying to do is speculate the future on these mags and, in my opinion, I am thinking that the Magpul mags will be the most common and have the best price (and will, most certainly, last the longest).

One AR-308 that I am considering is the Remington R-25. What should I know about these (good or bad)? I quite like the price in comparison to other AR-308s. I am guessing that they have better customer service than other manufacturers.

I am also looking at a couple of Bushmasters.

Keep in mind, I really don't want to spend more than $1300.00... considerably less would be even better.

I am also open to the idea of building one, but that seems to be a lot more difficult (due to the lack of parts interchangability) with a .308 as opposed to a .223 and not as cost effective. I just seems that everyone has their own configuration and very few brands are compatible with each another. I guess I am asking: What brands are the most interchangeable in the AR-308 platforms?...... and which are the least interchangeable?

What are your thoughts?

 

[henschman]

If you want an open sight plinker, it only makes sense to go with the rifle that has the best sights! That would definitely be the M-14/M1A. They have nice easy 1 MOA clicks for both windage and elevation at the rear sight, and have a very long sight radius. Like the FAL, they are also a very simple and rugged design and are very reliable. They generally cost a few hundred more than you can pick up a FAL for though. They are in the price neighborhood of a lot of .308 ARs ($1200-1600). They are generally not quite as accurate as an AR, but are generally more accurate that FALs. But they definitely have the best iron sights, and usually have the best trigger, as well.

The sights on the AR and the FAL are about equally as good. They both have good adjustable aperture sights. however, the sight radius isn't as long as the M-14's, since they put the front sight on the gas block instead of the end of the barrel (same thing with the G3). Also, the sights aren't as easy to adjust and don't have the same nice easy increments. On the AR, the increments on the clicks are a wierd fractional amount of MOA and you have to adjust elevation at the front sight with a tool. On the FAL, both the windage and elevation adjustments require a tool, and you adjust elevation at the front sight. You adjust windage at the rear with a screwdriver. Some of them have clicks on the screw and some don't. If it has clicks, they are set up for the metric system so they are also a wierd fraction of MOA.

Ot the AR, triggers can be as good as you want them to be, since you can put any AR-15 trigger in them. The factory triggers usually leave something to be desired, though. FAL's also tend to have pretty rough and heavy factory triggers, though they can be improved with a little work.

I would rate the G3/HK91/PTR91 last when it comes to sights and trigger. They are known for having really terrible factory triggers. The sights are about the same sight radius as the FAL and AR, but they are harder to adjust. Windage adjusts with a screwdriver, and elevation adjustments require a special tool... both adjust in wierd increments. The rear sight is a 4-position diopter. The 100 yard setting is a big V-shaped notch that isn't very precise and is a little awkward for me. The 2, 3, and 400m settings are apertures and are OK. The diopter doesn't adjust out any farther than 400m though.

By comparisson, the BDC drum on an AR adjusts from 300m out to 600m if you have a removeable carry handle and 300-800m if you have a fixed carry handle, and you use the larger aperture with the 300 setting for a 200m zero. The FAL's rear sight adjusts from 200-600m. The M14's rear sight adjusts from 100 to 1,100m.

Hope this helps.

 

[DBryant]

I wouldn't say that the HK-91 style rifle have bad sights. The sights are very different from what most people are used to but if you get used to them, I have found them to be quite good.

It's true that you need a tool to adjust for both windage and elevation, however you can use a regular phillips screwdriver for windage and a pair of needle-nose pliers for the elevation adjustment. There is also a special sight tool but I haven't looked into getting one in a long time.

Once your adjustments are set, range adjustments are made by simply twisting the rear drum. True, the sights only go out to 400 meters but how much shooting past 400 does one plan on doing with iron sights?

If you want to do more longer range shooting, you can get a PTR with a rail on top of the receiver, much like a flat-top AR.

One of the things I really love about the HK sights is the way the front and rear sights work together. Look through the rear sight and line up the ring around the front sight with the hole in the rear aperture. You now have proper sight alignment. Put the front post on the target and you have proper sight picture. Once you get used to it, it's easy and I've found it to be quicker than other iron sights I've used.

Like I said, it's different, but I wouldn't call it bad. It's just a personal preference sort of thing. My advice would be to see if you can try one from a buddy or range rental and see for yourself if you like it. I had them on my Century HK-91 clone and loved them so much I'm going to put them on my AR.

 

[Col. Plink]

For a rock-solid platform that cycles with total reliability and as fast as you can re-acquire a target look at a Remington 760/7600 pump and 10-rd mags. The choice of many an Alaskan guide.