308 semis, rank by accuracy

[meanmrmustard]

You might want to research the FNAR a little bit more. It lists for $1500 or so but lately many dealers have been selling them for a little under $1000. It's made by FN Herstal, one of the best firearms makers on the planet, and in order to get 1 MOA performance you basically just need to take it out of the box, install a scope, and start shooting. No tuning, no glass bedding, nothing.

As for .308 ARs, there is such a huge range that I wouldn't make any generalities. Some can probably shoot 0.5 MOA, others may be lucky to do 2 MOA. The DPMS .308s with free floating barrels tend to be very accurate, at the expense of being heavy and sometimes unreliable (my LR-308B has always been accurate but I'm still dealing with reliability issues). For the combination of accuracy, reliability, and durability, you might look at the KAC SR-25, LMT MWS, and Noveske, all of which will set you back more than $2k to start.

Really, unless discussing an exact model made by one specific company, it's hard to really compare accuracy with specific claims. Some FALs do 4 MOA, while some of DSA's SA58 models can realistically do 1-1.5 MOA. One guy's G3-derivative may shoot 1 MOA while another's may struggle to do 4 MOA. Etc. etc.

Good post.

 

[barnbwt]

Of course you think the FNAR is a "strong winner" - you're trying to make a case for a specific rifle based on price. If you have to glass bed it, change the barrel, etc. that's a lot more "effort involved" than purchasing a .5 MOA rifle to start with.

Price and performance. A ratio. The fact the FNAR does accuracy typical of modest bolt-actions, with no tweaking, for 1000$ is a huge achievement. Heck, many 1000$ factory bolt actions only shoot sub-MOA.

The point about the upgrades was simply to add that the FNAR is capable of being upgraded (obviously not as easily as a modular AR10, though). That an upgraded FNAR would cost as much as a NIB GAP 10 speaks more to the diminishing returns to be had for improvements at the <.5MOA accuracy level.

I am personally a little-under MOA shooter, so a "twice as accurate" rifle wouldn't be, in my hands. But yes, a 2500$, highly customized, hand-fitted/polished AR10 is .25" more accurate than me with my FNAR

For those willing to pay for the absolute best, the customized AR10's are impressive machines, but are they really more inherently accurate than another action (any?) with the same work and engineering poured into it? AR's are the easiest to modify, so it makes sense that they get customized/upgraded more often. The real question (which I can't really answer) is what is the limiting factor for accuracy in each of the platforms. In common factory guns, it's the barrels right? So isn't this question (about actions' accuracy) kind of moot?

Quick question: Has anyone ever made a FAL as nice as Larue makes its rifles?

TCB

 

[Z-Michigan]

The real question (which I can't really answer) is what is the limiting factor for accuracy in each of the platforms. In common factory guns, it's the barrels right? So isn't this question (about actions' accuracy) kind of moot?

Once you get below 1 MOA, the limiting factor is everything, but ammunition is probably one of the more difficult to address. Not much factory ammunition is going to provide groups below 0.75 MOA, and only the very best (like Federal GMM) is even going to take you there. People regularly shooting below 1 MOA generally seem to be handloaders doing the whole neck turning, runout checking, micrometer die loading thing. Great if it's your thing, but puts a bit of a limit on anyone besides a dedicated hobbyist with both free time and skills.

Quick question: Has anyone ever made a FAL as nice as Larue makes its rifles?

I don't own a Larue but I've handled several including a .308 just this past weekend. They are very nice. DS Arms makes new FALs with 100% new US-made parts in their SA-58 series. I would say they are very close to being as nice as Larue rifles and possibly equal.

Beyond that there are a few highly skilled gunsmiths who build FALs from parts. The assembly skill for those rifles will be easily equal to Larue, but the parts that go into it may not be as pretty or precise.

 

[Maverick223]

People regularly shooting below 1 MOA generally seem to be handloaders doing the whole neck turning, runout checking, micrometer die loading thing.

I handload, and do use micrometer dies for some cartridges (they don't make a great deal of difference in accuracy, when compared to other quality dies, IME), but that's about it and I am able to achieve 0.5MOA or better out of my rifles capable of such performance (after carefully working up a load suited to the rifle in question). In fact I find that half-MOA ammunition is pretty easily achievable for a handloader with a little time to invest. It's near impossible to find factory ammo that will match that performance though, there are simply too many variables that factory produced ammunition is incapable of accounting for.

 

[arizona98tj]

I picked up a gently used FNAR for $900 from a shooting buddy. It had less than 100 rounds through it.

It didn't shoot 1 MOA so I sent it back to FNH. They picked up the cost of a new barrel and returned the rifle with a sub-MOA test target. I went out the next weekend with FGMM and some Winchester hunting loads. Both bested the factory test target. This fall, when the temps drop off, I'll start working up some loads for it.

I've never shot a GAP 10, Les Baer .308, JP PSC 12, LMT .308, or LaRue PredatOBR rifle, but since someone said they are in a whole different category, I'll believe them. I assume they probably run at least $2K and probably push towards $3K or beyond. I personally see little to gain by spending significantly more than I did for my FNAR to get another .3 or .4 MOA. Others will gladly do it and that is fine. I need to spend more time learning to read the wind and should see better results from that. Besides, I'm pretty sure that GAP 10 doesn't have auto-wind correction anyway.

 

[Driftertank]

I'll only weigh in here enough to say, my firsthand experience is that a PTR-91F will edge out a rack-grade Springfield M1A in accuracy, when firing the same off-the-shelf ammo.

Make it a PTR-91 GI, or a National Match M1A and i'm pretty sure it'll go the other way, so i put them on par, overall.

Rule-of-thumb is that an out-of-the-box AR will be more accurate, FAL's slightly less so, with adverse-condition reliability changing inversely. But as with all generalisations, there are many, many exceptions...

 

[MachIVshooter]

Heck, many 1000$ factory bolt actions only shoot sub-MOA.

What do you mean "only shoot sub-MOA"? Sub-MOA can be .99 MOA or .01 MOA..........

 

[siglite]

Once you get below 1 MOA, the limiting factor is everything....

Ok, that made me laugh. Truth sometimes does that.

 

[barnbwt]

What do you mean "only shoot sub-MOA"? Sub-MOA can be .99 MOA or .01 MOA..........

Precisely, the shooter with a 1 MOA gun can only guarantee shots inside a 1" circle. A rifle will make hits more accurate than its rating (statistically, the majority of shots are more accurate than the rating). It's a technical distinction, but I feel, one worth making.

Now, let's not all get into a "what does MOA accuracy really mean" thing here...

TCB

PS- That video was quite good, one of the better "Hitler Reacts to X" clips I've seen. The did a great job keeping the joke running throughout the whole thing, too. "It might as well have been made by H&K!" brilliant