Looking for a good muzzleloader kit.

[midland man]

my traditions Kentucky rifle it has that spacer and really looks good with it plus mine is a 45 caliber but they also have it in 50 caliber but mine has the 1-66 twist only good for roundballs!

 

[entropy]

You live in Minnesota, and no one has suggested Track of the Wolf? Even if you don't buy one from them, go. They are a fountain of information, have all the little do-dads and didgerrees that help make a BP build go smooth, not to mention scads of accoutrements for your new rifle. The Lyman Great Plains is a great gun. It wasn't a kit but a good friend of mine has one. I have a Traditions Hawken, not from a kit either, but it also is a good gun. Took a doe at 125 yards with it.

Here's a pic with the two rifles, and some of the pistols Mark and I owned at the time:



That's me in my ersatz Civil War getup with the Walker I never should have sold.

 

[milemaker13]

I keep reading this thread and it keeps bringing back the desire to build another BP gun.

 

[Mn Fats]

You live in Minnesota, and no one has suggested Track of the Wolf? Even if you don't buy one from them, go. They are a fountain of information, have all the little do-dads and didgerrees that help make a BP build go smooth, not to mention scads of accoutrements for your new rifle.

Never heard of them. Looks like they're in Elk River. I could make the trip down some day. Thanks entropy.

Edit: what's the rifle on the right? Gotta be the Lyman.

 

[Mn Fats]

If you intend to shoot patch and ball, the Lyman will probably be the best choice because of the 1 in 60 rifling and deeper groves. I think all the Traditions barrels are 1 in 48. I have seen 1 in 48 barrels that shot well but not as good as slower twists. I would also go with the 54 cal.

I'd like to do patch and ball with Goex. Try to keep it as traditional as possible. Stay away from the Traditions brand for that then?

 

[ThomasT]

There is nothing wrong with the Traditions rifles. They shoot very well and have smooth barrels and a little deeper rifling than the Lyman/Investarms guns. And a 1/48 twist shoots balls and conicals accurately. The 1/48 twist was all that was used by the Hawken brothers and their guns are noted for being accurate with that twist rate.

My 50 caliber Lyman great Plains rifle with a 1/60 twist does shoot round balls accurately. And it also shoots the Lee 320gr REAL and a Lee hollow base minnie surprisingly well. Some will say a 1/60 twist is a round ball only twist but thats not true. The muskets used in the civil war had 1/60 twist and did very well with 600gr minnie balls.

Just as important as the twist is the quality of the patch material and how well the ball/patch combination is matched to your barrel.

 

[ThomasT]

I recommend this book for every beginning BP shooter. I have it and its what taught me to load and shoot BP guns. It will answer all your questions about BP rifles. Even the ones you haven't thought of yet.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/The-Comple...254376&hash=item2142a6f572:g:gu0AAOSwI~taT~J3

 

[entropy]

Never heard of them. Looks like they're in Elk River. I could make the trip down some day. Thanks entropy.

Edit: what's the rifle on the right? Gotta be the Lyman.

Yes, that's the Lyman, my Traditions is on the left. My Traditions is 1:48, and is accurate with both round ball and conical. I used a 385 gr. Buffalo Bullets HBHP conical to take that doe at 125 yards.

 

[Fine Figure of a Man]

Stay away from the Traditions brand for that then?

I wouldn't say that, just that the slower twist usually shoots patch and ball better, especially at higher velocities.
IMO 54 is the best round ball for deer but all the ones I have shot were with 50 or 58.

 

[ThomasT]

my traditions Kentucky rifle it has that spacer and really looks good with it plus mine is a 45 caliber but they also have it in 50 caliber but mine has the 1-66 twist only good for roundballs!

The 45 caliber is my favorite of all. here is my post from the Frontier Muzzleloading Forum showing velocities from 45, 50 and 54 caliber guns using 70grs of powder. Notice how close power wise they are.

I got out my Lyman BP handbook and looked up some of the velocities for 70gr charges in 45, 50 and 54 caliber. Powder is G-O FFFg except the first listing. Strangly enough Lyman did almost all the rifle test with 3F powder. They pretty much only used 2F in the 58 caliber. And the 70gr loadings in 58 caliber were pretty weak.

45 caliber 28" barrel: PRB w/70grs 2F 1670fps and 822 FPE 260 FPE at 100 yards.
45 caliber 28" barrel: PRB w/70grs 3F 1994fps and 1172 FPE and 332 FPE at 100 yards.
45 caliber 32" barrel: PRB w/70grs 3F 1977fps and 1152 FPE and 328 FPE at 100 yards.
45 caliber 40" barrel: PRB w/70grs 3F 1925fps and 1190 FPE and 315 FPE at 100 yards.

50 caliber 28" barrel: PRB w/70grs 3F 1587fps and 1005FPE and 365FPE at 100 yards
50 caliber 32" barrel: PRB w/70grs 3F 1663fps and 1104FPE and 389FPE at 100 yards.
50 caliber 43" barrel: PRB w/70grs 3F 1725fps and 1188FPE and 408FPE at 100 yards.

54 caliber 28" barrel: PRB w/70grs 3F 1375fps and 922FPE and 409FPE at 100 yards.
54 caliber 34" barrel: PRB w/70grs 3F 1439fps and 1010FPE and 431FPE at 100 yards.
54 caliber 43" barrel: PRB w/70grs 3F 1527fps and 1137FPE and 462FPE at 100 yards.

 

[midland man]

I built a traditions Kentucky rifle in 45 caliber flintlock year before last and with a 15ths lubed patch and my own cast roundballs at .445 with a 1-66 twist and 50grs of 3f goex down a 33 1/2in barrel mine shoots great plus I killed a young buck last year and it didn't go 20 yards and dropped dead so I love this 45 caliber rifle!!

 

[Mn Fats]

Do the flintlocks have any sort of fail rate over the percussion? Or are they just slower? Sorry, I don't know anything about BP rifles.

 

[ThomasT]

A good FL will fire almost as fast as a percussion gun. But they are more likely to miss fire in wet conditions And flints need to be sharp. Frizzens free of oil and touch holes cleared. For a first gun a percussion is a better choice unless you have others who can help you.

All these questions are covered in the Sam Fadala book I linked to earlier in post #57. Buy the book. Read it. You will be better informed.

 

[earplug]

I have been tempted to build a underhammer rifle. If your a left handed shooter or want something a bit different a under hammer has a simple elegance that attracts me.

 

[Jackrabbit1957]

A well tuned flinter will go off almost as fast as a cap gun. Follow through is very important. It is a lot like shooting a spring powered air rifle. Very important to keep concentration on sights and target while a fire ball is flashing right in front of your face. As to patch material I go to Walmart and buy a yard of their canvas duck material then precut patches from it to size for whatever caliber needs patches. The canvas mikes out at .018. It can be a little tough to start but my accuracy has improved since I started using it. This is where the Pinesol works really well as both a cleaner and lube. This is what works for me. I do use a short starter to get the ball going down the barrel. The tight patch may have something to do with keeping the fouling down.