Looking for a gun safe...

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The Sensei

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Upstate NY
I have reached a point where I have too many guns to fit in my 14 gun Sentry Safe and need to buy something larger.

Was at Gander Mountain last night looking at their rather large collection.
Noticed a "Timber Ridge" 23 gun safe that I am told is made by the Liberty Safe company. Does anyone know anything about either the brand or the company? Looked to be a decent safe but I have never heard of Liberty or TimberRidge.

This safe was marked at $750...I had told the salesman (who seemed to know what he was talking about) that I was looking for a safe in the $800 to $1200 range and asked him which safe would he suggest as the best value in that price range.

Can anyone let me know if that is a decent safe or suggest another make / model? I want a gun safe that will provide at least a half hour fire protection and is built well enough to discourage any would-be thief and last the rest of my natural life.

Sensei
 
I have a 21 gun National Security firesafe, and I love it. It is a little over your range but worth it in my opinion.

jojo
 
On the group buy section of THR someone is selling new browning safes for 30% off
 
Sensei;

Depends upon whether or not you're serious about getting a safe, or a tin box. Do a search here on THR of: RSC. Residential Security Container, ie Liberty & anything made by them, Browning, Cannon, etc, etc.

At the least, when you're done reading the info, you'll know whether or not what you eventually get is a safe - or not.

900F
 
I need one too....
Picked up the paper this morning and found an ad that read: "Antique 6 foot tall safe, $100"
It was gone by 10:30 this morning :cuss: :banghead: :fire:
The ad came out yesterday morning and I didn't have time to read all the paper.
 
I bought a National Security Safe, Classic 30. (Liberty Safe Co.) They run about $1200.00 iirc, (don't exactly remember) but you might get one that is scratched etc for less. This safe is rated for fire protection in that it takes 45 minutes to reach 275 degrees inside at 1638 degrees outside temp. That is a a good rating. It is about 5 feet tall, 26 inches deep and 30 inches wide. It took 3 men and a hydraulic dolly to get it down 3 steps into my basement. It ain't going nowhere without a lot of work. Google National Security Safe for all the info. and dealers. American built. The fire protection is key. Read what they have to say about how they test their safes as opposed to some obfuscation put out by competitors using the word "average temp".

You can store a lot of firearms in there along with other important stuff.
 
Liberty Safe

Liberty Safes are made in Payson,UT. They make fine safes in many sizes and protection classes and price ranges. For the money, they are an excellent buy--they make specialized named boxes for various entities. My Liberty is actually a Franklin model, but is labeled Remington with a very attractive door logo. :rolleyes:
 
I picked up a nice Heritage safe about a year ago, when a local retailer was reducing inventory. The model I bought had the least expensive finish, but had a door and lock upgrade. It was about $1600, and well worth it. It's not full yet but I'm working on it.

http://www.heritagesafe.com/
 
re: residential security containers vs "real" safes...

Okay... Are there any real safes that one doesn't have to design a house around? That a couple of guys and a good-sized dolly can move?

I'm far more concerned from keeping some neighborhood juvenile delinquent out of my gunsafe than it being burgled by a master safecracker...
 
Fella's;

In order:

Grampster, no that is not a good fire rating. The Underwriters Lab 1 hour rating is good.

Hjrocket, Liberty builds RSC's not safes.

Eagle 45., Heritage is either a spin-off from Liberty or made by them, I forget which. See above.

Bogie, two guys & a proper dolly can move a 'real' safe. We do it all the time. But the fridge dolly you rent is not a proper dolly. Our smallest 'real' safe that is long guns capable weighs in at around 1100 lbs. So, if you truely know what you're doing - yes. If you have any doubts, hire it done. J-D's seem to be getting somewhat more sophisticated though IMHO.

900F
 
Rule #1...

Do not keep your cutoff wheel, cutting torch, and large drills stored right next to your RSC...

Rule #2...

Store a half-gallon of Jim Beam on top of your RSC. Odds are you'll come home and find the J-D in front of the safe...
 
cb900, I know I am about to ask a question similar to "What does a house cost", and I realize there are a lot of variables involved, but "What does a safe cost?"

I have seen your anti-RSC posts many times, you make salient points, and you seem to know your stuff. I am curious what it is you sugest for a small to modest collection for those folks who would otherwise buy a Sentry.

Just for grins lets say a 14 gun safe. - fireproof. What about shipping? What sort of costs will that add on?

Thanks,
Charles
 
As an example, look at one of these . Figure something like a dollar a pound, delivered and installed - positioned and leveled. A quick look shows more per pound for the lighter boxes.

Took two husky guys, a serious pallet jack, and a couple of 2-inch thick, 6-foot prybars to install.

All you're really buying is time, if a BG decides to attack the safe. Of course, there -is- the look of the thing to offer discouragement.
 
Sensei:

I have a Heritage Safe, built right here in Idaho. I do not believe that there has ever been a successful breaking into of a Heritage; probably other companies can make this claim too, I don't know.

As for the fireproof/fire resistance rating: if the safe is placed in the garage or in another location, along an outside wall, the fire resistance will be even more effective because of its location-it ain't gonna get as hot along an outside wall as it will in the middle of the house.

The best advice I ever received regarding the purchase of a safe was from.....a salesman!! This is what he told me: "I've sold safes to people who came back and said they wished they'd bought a BIGGER one-I've never had anyone come back in & say they wished they'd bought a smaller one." A friend of mine in Michigan confirmed this. He bought a middle sized one, and it filled up really quick like! That left him with 3 options: (A) trade it on a bigger safe; (B) buy another safe; (C) reduce his accumulation of guns, & he didn't really see (C) as an option.

Sam
 
CGofMP;

They really aren't anti-RSC posts. I've said before & will say again, anything is better than nothing. What bothers me though, is the misrepresentation of the protective capabilities of various RSC marketers.

If nothing else, what I like to think I'm doing is educating people who are highly likely to buy a firearms storage unit. At least if someone does buy an RSC after reading some of my posts, they'll know what they are getting in comparison to what is available on the market.

Another thing that frosts me are the prices I see on the high-end RSC's. I can, and do, sell true safes for that kind of money. So, in answer to your question: About $3,000.00 - $4,000.00 depending on shipping & options, etc. Remember interior space is the cheapest part of a safe. Buy larger than you think you'll need - MUCH cheaper than either trading in or buying a second unit.

Look at it this way, if you have 8 guns & the average replacement cost of the total arm, including glass, slings, etc. is $800.00, your loss potential in firearms alone is $6,400.00. But, your not going to stop at 8 if the safe holds 14, right? Then there's the stuff the wife is going to want to put in there. Some of which is 'priceless!'. And if you pooh-pooh that statement to her, well you're a braver man than I am. So let's say, jewelry, camera(s) & all, the quantifiable value of contents goes in the 10 to 15k range by the time all is said & done. Now $3,500.00 for the true safe doesn't look so bad, does it? And I'm being conservative on the value of contents figure. I know some of my customer's in-safe assets make those numbers look like chump change.

Anything is better than nothing - but some things are better than others. You pays yer nickle & you makes yer choice.

900F
 
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Thank you CB900f... Using the phrase 'anti-rsc' was a poor choice on my part, sorry about mis-stating your viewpoint by degrees.

Most appreciate the response. Your figure was about what I expected it might be.

I think what I read here and other places is not so much people going from high end RSC to a REAL safe, but it is more of an issue of people making the jump from the low end Sentry type RSCs to 3-4k.

Again, I appreciate your reply.

Charles
 
Was at Gander Mountain last night looking at their rather large collection.
Noticed a "Timber Ridge" 23 gun safe that I am told is made by the Liberty Safe company.
This safe was marked at $750...

If you have not done so already , you can apply for the Gander Mountain credit card and receive 10% off of your first purchase - so , that would already save you $75 on the one you are looking at.

A few weeks ago I bought a Liberty safe - uhh. , sorry ..RSC. While it is not a true safe I feel much better storing my guns in there as opposed to the various "hiding places" I had used.

As a note - all my friends that own RSC/ safes have never lost any guns due to theft. We all know people that have had guns stolen that were not secured in a safe.
 
I looked at a lot, from RSCs up to real safes. I bought a Ft. Knox (specifically the Defender series--http://www.ftknox.com/safes/defender.htm). It seemed to be the best "bang for the buck". Good protection, but it isn't much on looks. I did spring for the electronic lock option. I've had it several months now and am quite happy with it. I just wish they made one bigger than the 7241, though. :)
 
what exactly distinguishes a true safe from an RSC?
Click to expand...
The Underwriter's Lab rating, usually.

Just a random search for the ratings brings up this
Net Working Time - This is the UL term for testing time which is spent trying to break into a safe using tools such as diamond grinding wheels, high-speed drills with pressure applying devices, or common hand tools such as hammers, chisels, saws, and carbide-tip drills. If a safe has been rated with a 30-minute net working time, (TL30), the rating certifies that the safe successfully withstood a full 30 minutes of attack time with a range of tools.

Theft resistant - This rating means the safe provides a combination lock and minimal theft protection.

Residential Security Container rating (RSC) - This UL rating is based on testing conducted for a net working time of five minutes, on all sides, with a range of tools.

TL-15 rating - The TL-15 rating means the safe has been tested for a net working time of 15 minutes using high speed drills, saws and other sophisticated penetrating equipment.

TL-30 rating - A product carrying the TL-30 security label has been tested for a net working time of 30 minutes with the same types of tools mentioned above.

TL-30 x 6 - The TL-30 (30-minute) test is conducted on all six (6) sides of the safe.

TRTL-30 - The TRTL rating designates a safe which successfully resisted 30 minutes of net working time with a torch and a range of tools which might include high speed drills and saws with carbide bits, pry bars, and other impact devices.

UL manufacturing follow-up - This exclusive service assures that the customer is buying a unit that is exactly like the one that successfully passed UL testing.
Click to expand...
There is also
TRTL60 - a safe that must weigh at least 750 pounds and be able to resist expert attack by both power tools and cutting torch for a net working time of 60 minutes

TXTL60 - a safe that must weigh at least 1000 pounds and resist expert attack by power tools , cutting torches and high explosives for a net working time of 60 minutes.
Click to expand...
from this site

Also found this site - Hayley's which talks about construction ratings - B, C, E, ER, F, G - and has some correlations between those and the UL ratings (ER, F, and G seem to be defined by the UL labels). The page also says
A "burglary rated" safe, properly constructed, will have for a minimum, a inch steel plate body and a minimum inch steel plate door with combination lock. Safes without this rating cannot be expected to offer any real protection from the aggressive burglar.
Click to expand...
That would be an E-construction container.
 
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Been looking at safes/rsc myself over the last few weeks. Looked at champion safes most recently. http://www.championsafe.com

The story my safe guy told me is that the guy who started champion originally founded liberty and knox before opening champion just down the road from liberty in provo utah. Have no idea if that is true or just legend.

My question is in regards to the material thickness of the body on the rsc's. I always see the outer shell thickness advertised as 12 ga or 10 ga, 3/16 etc. I understand that many of these have double or triple "fire protection" i.e. sheets of sheetrock, fireboard etc.

My question is what exactly is the "inner wall" metal thickness? Or is there even an inner wall? I guess what I'm asking is what exactly is the make-up of the body of the safe? 10ga outer steel, three sheets of fireboard, a 10ga inner steel wall, and interior finish panels?

Thanks
Wayne
 
Fella's;

Librarian; Thanks for saving me some work, I appreciate it. I do note some minor differences, but not worth arguing about.

Wayne; In the vast majority of cases, it's; 'what inner wall?' Carpet/liner is attached, usually glued, to the innermost wall board. But it's high-strength glue you see. I also think that both Heritage & Champion are both in some way related to Liberty.

900F
 
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