Looking for a handy carbine...

[Illuminate]

After looking at a Norinco Uzi copy in my local gun shop and also handling a Kel-Tec Sub-2000 in .40, I decided that what I want for my next rifle purchase is a compact and lightweight (I considered the Uzi copy lightweight, by the way) carbine in a pistol-ish caliber for $0-400.

The Kel-Tec was almost perfect. Unforunately, the handling and cheap feel of the firearm were big turnoffs. An example of the "cheap feel" was the way the trigger guard made the gun fold - not that fact that it did so, but the fact that the trigger guard felt like it was going to break every time I folded the carbine. Adding the the Kel-Tec's insufficiencies was the ackward position of the charging handle and the incredibly hard time I had charging the thing without turning it upside down. I do NOT want one of these things.

The Uzi copy handled fine, but it was a bit steep for me ($550) and had a break in the lower grip of the stock, on the left side of the magazine well.

Another carbine I was considering was the M1 Carbine. At 35" long, it's just barely short enough for what I'm looking for in the "handy little rifle" role. Further, it's a WWII era weapon. The only drawbacks to this gun are:
1.) It's not available in my local gunshops
2.) The price range (While there are some M1's I've seen on the GunBroker.com in my price range, I do not know what the quality on these guns is)

So, with all that in mind, are there any reccomendations you guys can give? Any guns I missed that would fit the bill?

 

[farscott]

While it appears you are focused on autoloading rifles, I suggest taking a look at lever action rifles, specifically the Marlin 1894 series. If autoloading is a want, Ruger makes the PC-series and Beretta makes the Storm series. I have not used Ruger's or Beretta's offerings, but I have had great luck with Marlin.

 

[Illuminate]

While I have not ruled out lever actions (and I did love shooting the one I shot dearly) I was leaning more towards the semi-auto side.

PS: The Ruger is looks promising.

 

[keederdag]

I would have to go with the ruger. Plentiful mags+cheap; looks like a good set up too. Why a pistol cal though?

 

[Kaylee]

I dunno.. that M1 kinda defines "handy carbine" I think.

What exactly is your price range, what's the intended use, and as keederdag asks -- why pistol chambering? Not saying don't do it, just wondering what your motivation is. The Beretta Storm sounds like it's right up your alley though.

 

[Illuminate]

My price range is the Zero (best) to $400ish (worst) range. I want a pistol-ish caliber because I want little recoil. I want something that goes "plink plink plink" and stays on target. It doesn't have to take down bear, but 9mm is the lowest caliber I would deem acceptable.

I am liking both the Ruger and the M1 right now - If finances were not an issue I would choose the M1 out of the two (and an IMI Uzi out of the three )

Keep those comments coming, and add any firearms you know of. I think I will start a search on the quality of the different lower-end brands of M1 carbines.

 

[Crimper-D]

Get a Paratrooper style M1...

With the folding stock, A LOT more stable than the Kel Tech, made out of steel & wood with many aftermarket hi-cap mags avilable, Flash supressors, Red Dot sights... the list goes on & on. Carbine ammo may be a 'pistol' loading, and the GI Ball ammo may be 'anemic', but load up a 15 or 30 round mag with SP's or HP's and things are going to stop messing with you The ammo is cheaper than 9mm or .40 as well.
My little plinker carbine is a Universal made commercial copy with an Aimpoint Red Dot bolted on Shoot that thing all day.

 

[keederdag]

You did'nt just say .30 carb. is cheaper than 9mm did you?

 

[Illuminate]

I think I am going to go the .30 carbine rout. Looking at some reviews of the lower-priced M1 Carbine's said they were pretty good. The folding stock - while something I would definitely not be able to get right away - is definitely something I would get in the future. It's going to take a little more saving, but I think I will be happy.

Hooray for WWII weapons!

 

[Amadeus]

An SKS is always an option. Lightweight, compact, costs less than $400 -- frequently less than $300, and packs enough firepower to put a hole in any phonebook or watermelon out there.

 

[hillbilly]

I own an M-1 Carbine. In fact, I've owned two of them.

I love them.....light, handy, standard 15 round mag that barely protrudes below the trigger guard.

Ammo is pricey, but I got reloading dies for mine.

On the other hand, a carbine I have shopped for is the Marlin Camp Carbine, especially the one in .45 ACP. That one takes standard 1911 mags and the .45 ACP is a thumper up close.

There is also a 9mm version of the Marlin Camp.

hillbilly

 

[hillbilly]

Here's a Camp Carbine in .45 ACP in your price range....at least so far it is.

http://www.auctionarms.com/search/displayitem.cfm?ItemNum=5044029

 

[USGuns]

Kel-Tec Sub2000

In defense of the Kel-Tec, it is very solid and I've never heard of anyone breaking the trigger guard. It's thick and sturdy and locks solidly.

Regarding the charging handle, I agree it's not the best spot in the world but is functionally located. An easy way to charge it is to hold the grip with your right hand, with the stock in your shoulder pocket in the firing positon, then with your left hand just push back on the charging handle towards your shoulder. It's easy once you do it.

You should try at least shooting one first before you make your final solution. Mine's been 100% so far. Reasonably accurate, low recoil, affordable and a hoot to shoot. Have fun!

As an alternative, look at the Rav-9mm: http://www.featherusa.com

 

[OEF_VET]

At the risk of being burned at a stake for heresy, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that you might want to check out the Hi-point carbines. They are inexpensive, as is the ammo, and they are surprising accurate. Hi-point may not be known for making beautiful weapons, they do make reliable ones.

The Ruger, Kel-Tecs, and M-1 Carbines are all good choices also. So is the SKS, but the round may be a bit more powerful than what you want to use it for.

Frank

P.S. If any of ya'll do come after me with a bucket of tar and a bunch of feathers for recommending Hi-Point, I'm confident Bowlcut will come to my rescue with his beloved Hi-point.

 

[Illuminate]

I own an SKS, and it isn't quite what I want for this particular rifle. I had thought about the High-Point before, and will consider one if I get to handle one.

The Feather carbine also looks very promising. I think what I am going to do is save up more and broaden my range of choices. The camp carbine looks nice.

I'm staying away from the Kel-Tec because I just couldn't handle it. It didn't fit me well at all.

 

[outdoorman63]

hi point

i have one and was pleasantly surprised...and decked out was 200.00

 

[Route 66]

I will jump in and tout the Hi Point carbine in 9mm (there is a rumor that it may come out in .45 ACP in the near future). I just won an auction for one and paid $171 out my FFL's door. I've put a couple hundred rounds through it (factory 115 FMJ, reloaded 115 FMJ and reloaded 124 lead RN) and it was totally reliable. It was handy, light, easy to aim and has 10 round magazines. I got a little more recoil than I was expecting from a 9mm round in a carbine configuration. Not a problem just didn't think it would be as much as it was.

The only knock I have so far against it are the sights............they stink. I think my Mattel toy gun sights when I was a kid were better than Hi-Point's. My next step is to try a scope and hope for the best.

Having said all that I'm still happy with it, I think it's great as a pistol round gun in a carbine configuration with a cost that would make any gun enthusiast's wife happy!

 

[Brian Dale]

I think what I am going to do is save up more and broaden my range of choices.

If you're doing that, let me put in another plug for the M1 carbine. My Mom has one (it was her Mother's Day gift from Dad, just before I was born ). Shooting it gives that feeling of "Wow! I'm shooting an M1 carbine!" You might not be a history buff, but I am. It's one of the archetypal "Good Guys" rifles.

 

[buttrap]

I would vote for the M-1, mags are cheep,folders are legal on one, you can kill deer with one and its just a all around fun easy to shoot carbine.

 

[Elarski]

How about a Ruger Mini 30? I know it's not a pistol caliber, but recoil in a gas gun is minimal, and the ammo is way cheap. Might be something to think about for an inexpensive, light recoiling carbine. Check out this one I found on Gunbroker.com

Good luck with whatever you choose.

 

[jrhead75]

At the risk of being burned at a stake for heresy, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that you might want to check out the Hi-point carbines.

The villagers are gathering and muttering among themselves even as we speak...

Me, I'd go with the Ruger in .44 mag. Not the cheapest ammo, but a buddy of mine got a couple of deer with his, and it was one sweet shooter! I didn't much care for my M1(Universal, IIRC), it had some reliability "issues". They are nice handling weapons though.

My .02

 

[hboy35]

Hi-Point

I will join the others out on the limb--I bought a used Hi-point carbine, blued version with soft case and extra mag out the door for $108 at my local shop. I have only fired 150rds thru it, but all flawlessly. I was testing it on a short pistol range(25yds) with open sights, and you can cover almost all 10holes (really just one big one) with a half dollar--and I aint Wyatt Earp. I gotta admit, it is not a simple job to fieldstrip, but how often realistically do we all do that chore? However, I will be first in line for the .45acp one coming out soon.
By the way, they have good customer service. Go ahead and spend alot of money on another rifle. I'm keeping my HiPoint.

 

[Dorrin79]

back when I had a hankering for a pistol-caliber autoloading carbine, I had pretty much decided on the Hi-Point.

Despite the ugly-factor, and the fact that it feels like a cheap knock-off of a Super-Soaker water gun, people who own them actually speak pretty highly of them. Certainly can't argue with the price.

Fortunately for my gun snob pedigree, I decided I had no need for a pistol caliber carbine and spent the money I had set aside for the Hi-Point on a Yugo M48 Mauser. Bit more recoil, there...

Autoloading pistol caliber carbines seem kinda pointless to me, in retrospect. None of them (except maybe some of the silly big-bores like .45 WinMag) really gain power out of a rifle barrel, and even the smallest, lightest pistol carbines aren't much lighter/smaller than, say, an SAR1 or equivalent. A gas operated rifle in .223 or 7.62x39 isn't going to have much more recoil than a pistol-caliber carbine, and the ammo is similar price if not cheaper.

Revolver-caliber lever-action carbines are better in terms of actually gaining something - .357mag out of a carbine begins to approach .30-30 in power levels (or so I've read) and .44 mag can be a good close-range cartridge in a carbine.

If I end up getting a carbine, I'll probably choose a nice lightweight lever-action in 30-30 or .35 remington. Might as well have a rifle cartridge if I'm going to be packing a rifle.

 

[Andrew Wyatt]

I'm not too fond of the ruger PC9. the sights aren't all that great (though they are pretty good for just being open sights.)


the recoil was severe for the caliber and weight of the piece, and can best be descrived as a "sloshing" action, as the bolt rides to the rear, bottoms out on the reciever, and then rides forward.

 

[jercamp45]

Yes, I like carbines......

Watching all those WWII flicks growing up sure made the M1 carbine look handy with alot of on-board firepower. Then I fell victim to the power crowd and deemed the .30 carbine a rather silly round.
But I have learned that it was not as bad as most believe...one gent that spent time in the jungle hell of Burma with Gen. Stillwell LOVED his...and kept it...thingk he was still hoping for another Jap to shoot at too! I consider it one of the first PDW designed strictly for emergency combat use. The MP-5 of WWII. Loaded with soft/hollow points, it is quite wicked!
When we moved to Alaska, I started looking for a Handy carbine for boonie stomping....and chose the Ruger .44 mag that accompanied me most of the time up there till it(and everything else we owned) was lost in a fire. The Ruger worked in 60 below......hit well out to 100 meter and it was very brushy where I lived, so that was just fine! And gave me five big, heavy ones as fast as I could reacquire the sights and squeeze the trigger.
Of course, I got time on the M16 in the Gyrenes. And Played with the SKS(the shorter Paratrooper has a nice balance for me). A few of the newer AR's, and got to play with the newer AR's, AK.....and the Winchester 94 in 30-30 and .44 mag.
The Marlin Camp 45 I owned, tested and played with was very unreliable. A most disappointing experience, as for years I wanted a carbne that fired ACP out 1911 mags.
I have heard good things about the High Point from the owner of a rental range. He said the thing worked reliably and his had a high round count without breakage or failure! So, when and if the .45 ever appears, I'll have to try it out.
Was looking for a new one too...though mission specific. I ordered a Mech Tech Carbine Conversion Unit for the .45 auto frame and look forward to it's arrival. I carry a ParaOrd Companion daily as a security officer and wanted a handy patrol carbine that used the same ammo outta the same mags. I have other Officer's and Government's that I can use on it until I find an inexpensive frame to dedicate to it...if I feel it is worth the expense after my testing procedure!! It may not be perfect, but I thinki it'll do...will write more when I wring it out on a desert trip!!
I can later buy one in 460 Rowland if I feel I need the extra thump. But, the .45 acp version will be a most handy companion as I prowl the night dealing with some most interesting people(God, that Crack is NASTY stuff!)!! If it works well, another Uncle Mike's quad pouch, more Wilson mags, and a Surefire light and mount will find their way into my meager collection(of mostly 1911's in .45 acp...so it fits in well!).
The Beretta Storm looks most interesting...but I will not hold my breath waiting for one that uses 1911 mags.
I called Kel Tech recently and they have no curreent(published anyway) plans to make a .45. BUT I did say I'd buy one it if used 1911 mags!!
Thompson, Uzi...are neat toys and I have shot them both..but they are very heavy for the level of power you are getting. The HK 94 was real nice, the USC was very fine...but too danged expensive. For the size and price, one can get a very nice AR!!
The UMP was ULTRA SWEET!(I want one!!!)......ahh, even if I got a class 3, it would be extremely hard...unless I had a good contact with a PD!!
I shoot alot of .45, so I really like the idea of having a short longgun that fires the same round!!(can't you tell?). It may not be a real rifle, but I can shoot it at an indoor range using Wally's World value packs.....and the rocket scientist ballistics folks can scream all they want.....a .45 caliber hole...is still a .45 caliber hole!!!
May each of us find our dream toy under the Christmas Tree!!
Jercamp45