Looking for an education on Browning semi-autos

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hAkron

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I'm looking for a new (used) 12 gauge semi auto, and I really like the style of the Browning semi autos, mostly the A5. Prices seem to be all over the board. I'd like to know about options, model variations, which ones to avoid, etc.

I'll be using it primarily for trap. Sometimes maybe for other clay games.

If there is a write up somewhere on the net, please toss me a link.
 
JMHO - not a good choice for trap, as it's a recoil operated system and will have a tendency to beat you up far more than a gas-operated gun like the Remington 1100. A single bbl trap will also be a possibly better choice as the stock configuration and weight will also help reduce recoil. None of the A5 variations were constructed to be effective primarily for trap, AFAIK...
 
As long as it will cycle light loads, I'm not super worried about it beating me up. I appreciate the input though.
 
The Auto-5, although a magnificent gun design from one of the best, John Moses Browning, it's not suited for continuous trap shooting. I would go for a (bottom eject) Browning BPS pump trap gun or an 1100 if you want an autoloader...
 
The Auto-5, although a magnificent gun design from one of the best, John Moses Browning, it's not suited for continuous trap shooting.
Not being a trap shooter, I'm curious as to why you think this is so.

Prices seem to be all over the board. I'd like to know about options, model variations, which ones to avoid, etc.
These shotguns have been out of production since 1999, but were in production for most all of the century prior to that. I have shot examples made from 1936 all the way up to 1998 models, and found both highly satisfying. I prefer post-war units, and specifically those made after 1954-1955 due to the inclusion of the 'Speed feed' feature in units made after that date. If the gun can be loaded without depressing the bolt release, then it's a post-1955 gun.

The standard units are pretty beefy, and I've shot 200+ rounds in an afternoon thru the 1936 gun that I owned without discomfort. (I loved that 1936 - it was actually a pretty cool gun for range use.) The 'Light' versions (2 3/4" only; Light-12, Light-20, and Sweet-16) have small amounts of metal machined out of the receiver and barrel in non-critical spots, and are probably close to a half-pound lighter than an equivalent 'standard' Auto-5. I prefer them for upland work relative to the standard units, since they're a bit easier on the arms to carry about. The magnum units could take 3" shells and were built on the standard (not 'Light') receivers.

Production was largely in accomplished Belgium, with a break during WWII (during which they were made in the US) and with production being moved to Japan in 1976. The Japanese guns are certainly the equal of the Belgian guns in terms of fit and finish in general. When production was moved to Japan the barrels were redesigned with thicker walls and removable choke tubes; according to Browning, these barrels can be used with steel shot but the earlier Belgian barrels should not. The Japanese barrels are heavier than their Belgian counterparts due to the thicker walls; that is valued by some folk and less desirable for others.

It used to be that Belgian-made units cost more than Japanese units, not because they are mechanically better but in an 'Old World' snobby kinda way. These days, I see mechanically sound Belgian Light-12s with field-worn finishes selling for $300 while cleaner Japanese units still command $700+. It seems as if condition has finally trumped location of manufacture for Auto-5s. :) In my neck of the woods, any of the Lights will sell for a premium ($100 or better) relative to the standard units.

Replacement parts are still readily available, due to the sheer number of guns produced and the fact that the design remained largely unchanged through its production run. Many parts require fitting (like stocks and such), making the guns seem more like a double gun in terms of maintenance than, say, a modern pump gun.

I know of none to avoid; these guns were't subject to constant re-tooling to address niche market segments. They are all designed to be working shotguns that will outlast any of us. The key questions to ask are relative to condition and intention - do you need a 3" magnum or a 2 3/4" standard or a 2 3/4" Light?.
 
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rbernie - Thank you!! This is exactly the kind of information I was looking for. I knew there were Belgium and Japanese examples, and that was one of my points of confusion, if one was superior to the other. For my purposes I will primarily be shooting 2 3/4" shells - I don't hunt and I have other shotguns that are better suited to home defense - and I am working up some light trap loads, 7/8 and 3/4oz loads, so recoil should be manageable.

Most of the used gun's I've seen do NOT have removable choke tubes. So there are a few routes I can go with this - either find a barrel with a constriction that will work for the kind of trap I do (mostly right now, just practice at the 16 yard line, so anything really would be fine), source a new barrel and either find one that is already threaded for choke tubes (assuming the newer barrels are compatible with whatever gun I get) or send the barrel off to be threaded for choke tubes.
 
Just My 2 cents Worth.

There lots of 12 gauges out there for $400 to $600. I ran a nice 16 ga online for $600 and didn't get a sniff. Then sold a 20 ga for $1200.

I honestly don't know about an A5 on the trap field. Trap is a different animal than the other clay games. You really need a different stock configuration to get serious at trap.
 
Most of the Japanese A5's have choke tubes, and are steel shot rated.

The barrels are interchangeable with a Belgian made A5.

Belgian made A5's have very thin muzzles, and retrofitting screw-in choke tunes can be problematic because there isn't enough metal there for the reaming and threads.

Thin-Wall tubes can usually be fitted, however they are usually not steel shot rated.

rc
 
Most of the Japanese A5's have choke tubes, and are steel shot rated.

The barrels are interchangeable with a Belgian made A5.

Belgian made A5's have very thin muzzles, and retrofitting screw-in choke tunes can be problematic because there isn't enough metal there for the reaming and threads.

Thin-Wall tubes can usually be fitted, however they are usually not steel shot rated.

rc
And custom tubes are expensive. I had Ballistics Specialties choke a 20 ga Beretta BL-3. They had to use their custom Angle Ported Chokes because of thin small diameter barrels. Two barrels threaded and 5 tubes ran $450 and that was almost 20 years ago.
 
Most of the used gun's I've seen do NOT have removable choke tubes. So there are a few routes I can go with this - either find a barrel with a constriction that will work for the kind of trap I do (mostly right now, just practice at the 16 yard line, so anything really would be fine), source a new barrel and either find one that is already threaded for choke tubes (assuming the newer barrels are compatible with whatever gun I get) or send the barrel off to be threaded for choke tubes.
Frankly, I run MOD or IMP barrels for field and range work and never really worry much about the choke at all. I did use a full choke barrel for range work for a while; that was terrific fun.
I am working up some light trap loads, 7/8 and 3/4oz loads, so recoil should be manageable.
I have found that the guns don't like to run 3/4oz loads; they short stroke. They will run 7/8oz loads with a lightly oiled mag tube.
 
What is that accessory called that clips onto the 'window' of an A-5 and prevents
the ejected hull from hitting the next shooter in the back? Can I still get one for a Sweet 16?
Thanks
Ron
 
up some light trap loads, 7/8 and 3/4oz loads, so recoil should be manageable.

Work those up before you buy the gun and try to borrow an A5 to see if they work the gun. I shoot a Beretta A400 and it works my 3/4oz loads with zero issues, but a long recoil gun might give you issues
 
Hakron,

Take a look at the Browning Double Auto if you want an old but really fun gun to shoot. I picked one up several months ago and it is now one of my favorites. Every time I go to the club with it someone asks about it. The gun was designed by John Brownings son (maybe grandson?) Val Browning and is a mechanical work of art. Really cool gun. I found mine local but you may have to scoure gun broker to find one.
I have an A5 also which I love to shoot but the Doyle auto beats it hands down for trap and skeet.
 
I found a beauty of a Belgium made A5 a couple of weeks ago. As everyone suggested, it won't cycle 3/4 or 7/8 loads. I shoot singles, so no biggie. It's like a built in shell catcher. The 30" VR full choke barrel is headed to Briley Manufacturing (http://www.briley.com/) to be fitted for choke tubes. $99 for the fitting, a few bucks more for some top notch extended chokes.
 
I can't comment on the A5 specifically, but I use a Browning Gold autoloader (gas operated) for trap with what I feel is a pretty high degree of success. My theory in choosing an autoloader was that cycling it used up at least part of the recoil energy. In truth, I don't notice much difference in recoil compared to a fixed breech gun but I'm still happy with my choice. It's been fantastically reliable. It gave me a peculiar jamming fit a couple of weeks ago, but I gave it a good cleaning and all is well again. Excepting that one day, the worst it's done was to not lock back... one time... in very cold conditions. It even cycled 2.5 inch shells reliably.
 
My mom just picked up a '88 A-500 with removable tubes for $400. She doesn't shoot trap but is always willing to accompany me to the sporting clays range.
 
Take a look at the Browning Double Auto if you want an old but really fun gun to shoot. I picked one up several months ago and it is now one of my favorites. Every time I go to the club with it someone asks about it. The gun was designed by John Brownings son (maybe grandson?) Val Browning and is a mechanical work of art. Really cool gun.

The Double Auto (DA) is one of the nicest handling and looking repeating shotguns ever made, imo. I bought my first one, new, in 1961 and still hunt with it. Val was John Browning's son. The DA is a "short-recoil" design and it benefits from having one of the shortest receivers any semi-auto shotgun has ever had. The op is interested in a trap gun but, although the DA was made ii a trap gun configuration, they are kind of hard to come by and, when you do find one, are on the pricey side.
 
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