Looking for Real World Experienced Opinion on .45ACP

[devildave31]

I have heard stories about a family friend who Is a Vietnam Vet and carried a 1911. My undertanding is that he was not impressed with the .45 ACP round.

I'm asking for ONLY people with Military or LEO experience who have had to use the .45 ACP in the line of duty to please share your opinion of the effectiveness of the .45 ACP round, and please share WHY you like/dislike.

I woul like to re-iterate, please only those who have real world experience with .45 ACP.

Thanks,

Afterthought, If you aren't Military or LEO, and have had to use .45 ACP for peronal defense, etc. I would like to hear your opinion also.

 

[Kingofthehill]

i know you are looking for people with real world experience shooting someone...

but don't you feel that the fact that a hardball .45acp went through a RAT... all 2-3" of it and kept going was a surprise?

Seems like a simple explanation to me.

 

[devildave31]

You bring up a good point, although I am not basing the question on one supposed incident. And Obviously I would expect to see a difference in results between a rodent and a human. (Although his argument was that the rat still just walked away.)

I have heard people here on THR as well as others mention that they have strong opinions on the .45 ACP round because of something they heard or saw. I would like to hear from people who opinions on that caliber based on substantive experience.

There seems to be a lot posted about caliber preference and ballistics, and so on and so forth, but I would think that the real metric of a handgun caliber is its performance in it's intended use.

 

[Jackal1]

Unlike in the past.... Commercial rounds today in 9mm, 40 S&W, and 45ACP are all designed to penetrate to about the same depth. This is because of the ballistic standards that various LE and military agencies mandate. What differs between rounds are things such as the bullet's initial impact speed, how the bullets expand, and how the bullets react to different materials they encounter.

The larger the bullet diameter the quicker the enemy will suffer bloodloss and experience blackout/death. No bullet is going to instantly kill a person or critter unless the central nervous system is hit. Drugged up crack heads can get shot multiple times and keep running full speed. Bullets primarily kill by blood loss which takes a few minutes of time. A person primarily instantly falls over when shot by a handgun due to their preconceived idea of what they believe happens when a person is shot. All handgun rounds are fairly bad choices for a fight. Nobody chooses to enter a fight with only a handgun, the handgun is used to fight your way back to your rifle.

Army combat medics are still taught (unofficially) in training that the 45ACP is a superior wounding/killing round when compared to the 9mm. In the Iraq/Afghanistan war the medics that I've talked to all wanted 45ACP for self defense guns when they got back home. I have two special forces relatives and they dismiss the 9mm and say they would not want to enter combat without the larger 45ACP.

The only service members that I have personally interviewed that stated they loved the 9mm round were service members who had never studied the 45ACP in depth and/or had never even used a 45ACP.

Cheers

 

[~Boomslang~]

Shooting a rat with a .45 projectile would be the equivilent of shooting a human with a cannonball. Splat would go the rat. Ball or not.

 

[devildave31]

Perhaps the rat story was not the best example, should not have brought it up. The point of the post is have you had to use our weapon/caliber of choice and what was your opinion on the performance of that caliber. With Particular emphasis on .45 ACP.

 

[918v]

How'bout a dead jackrabbit example?

I shot a dead rabbit with both a 9mm and a 45 ACP. The shot was straight down through the lungs and into the dirt. The 9mm went through the bunny and it only twitched. The 45 lifted the bunny into the air flipped it over.

I concluded the 45 inflicts more trauma than the 9mm.

 

[luigi]

Odds are that no one who has actually shot a human being is going to respond to your thread to tell you about it

 

[johnnylaw53]

Luigi, you are a smart person

be safe

 

[Skribs]

I've shot a paper target of a human being. From what I can tell, you have differences in recoil (9mm < .45 < .40), differences in hole size (.45 > .40 > 9mm), and differences in ammo capacity (9mm > .40 > .45). The 9 will give you the most control and the most bullets to use it with, but will have the smallest hole. The .45 will give you the biggest hole, but have the smallest magazine. I like the .40 for the compromise it provides.

 

[The Lone Haranguer]

With all due respect to your friend and his service, did he hit them? While I believe the other extreme ("they all fall to hardball") is a myth, it can still be an effective cartridge when the target is hit in the right place. In this article you will find an example.

 

[InkEd]

Both are good cartridges. The 9mm is faster, has less recoil, is a smaller diameter and penetrates deeper. The .45acp has more recoil, moves slower, penetrates less BUT has more kinetic energy. The difference is like comparing getting runover by a car going 50mph or a pick-up going 35. Either way your going to be in bad shape and not too happy.

 

[BlayGlock]

I have had rabbits fail to die with a single shot of .45 acp and I have had them die with a single shot of 9mm. You know what the difference was? Shot Placement. No handgun round is powerful enough to make up for a bad shot, and a well placed shot with any common service caliber is likely to be as effective as the next.

 

[thunder173]

Without belaboring the point,..and getting into a long conversation I'd really rather not get into,....I do have a bit of direct combat experience with the .45 ACP,....and the 9mm as well,..both in FMJ and JHP's,....given all that,..if FMJ was what I had to use,..I would go with the 45 ACP every time,..and without question.

If I were permitted to use a more effective JHP I'd probably STILL go the 45 ACP,...as it will never expand any less than that,..even if it fails. That's just me,....no science,...just gut instinct.

Having said that,..I own a pistol in 45 ACP,. and I do carry it occasionally,...and it is one of the go to handguns in my house for HD. But I own 9mm's as well, and carry a 9mm probabley more often than any other caliber, albeit more because of the platform,..and I have enough confidence in the 9mm JHP's I use to warrant doing so. FMJ's not so much.

Each to them's own,...but ymmv

 

[shootingthebreeze]

The .45 was my side arm when I was in the US Army- 20 years of service amd many qualifications with the .45 made me a believer in the weapon. Not only it fits well in my hand it shoots well also.
Now I have a Springfield Champion .45 1911 style because again, it fits well in my hand and is very balanced when I fire it.
Because of its constructions, and the Springfield construction as well, it proves to be a rugged, dependable weapon in any condition.

 

[danweasel]

I work in an army hospital. A few weeks ago a guy got shot in both legs with a .45 handgun. My friend who ran the CT scanner to make sure the bullets were through and through said there was so little damage it looked like stab wounds. Of course it somehow missed bone and artery so the guy was lucky. As a Combat Support Hospital vet, this guy has seen a lot of gunshots.

 

[Al Thompson]

I've popped critters with 9mm and .45 handguns. With FMJ, both suck. With JHPs, both suck less. Last hog I shot I hit in the head several times with 9mm 124 Gold Dots (G19). Got complete penetration with exit wounds bigger than a nickel and smaller than a quarter.

Shot placement is key. Always plan for the first shot or three to not work. Always have a plan "B".

 

[franconialocal]

I carry a Sig P-220 for duty. I've shot numerous injured deer, coyote, even the occasional downed moose (head shot) with 45 ACP (Federal). I find it to be a very effective round with more than adequate results.

The dirty details: Always a very significant entry wound with immediate and rapid blood-letting, esp. with head shots that are very vascular in nature. Due to our use of hollow-point ammo it is rare to find an exit wound even at relatively short distances. Although I have the luxury of time on my side for good shot placement due to the animal often already being down from the vehicle impact I find that no matter where the round lands it causes a great deal of positive damage and effect (cavitation) in post-mortem analysis with the Fish and Game officers. Every once in a great while I'll have a very stubborn animal that seems to live through the initial take-down, but death follows quickly after.

I'm fortunate that I have never had to deploy against a human target, but I feel confident that if I had to then the 45 ammo. would be my best asset aside from the shotgun and AR.

 

[Hawaiian]

With the development of todays JHP ammo, shot placement is more critical than the difference between 9mm and 45acp. The one you shoot best is the one to go with. If you shoot them both the same, then bigger is better.

 

[springwalk]

A 45 at worst will remain .45 cal when shot. A 9mm hollowpoint at best may reach a .45 diameter. In terms of accuracy the 45 acp cartridge is hands down the most accurate mass produced centerfire pistol cartridge made today. I feel better carrying 8 rounds of 45acp in a Sig 220 than 16 rounds of 9mm in tupperware. I think it was foolish of the US military to abandon the 45 for the hi-cap 9mm.

 

[jessegpresley]

There ain't a single person who's had to use their .45 that's going to tell their tale here.

 

[Shadow 7D]

THIS IS POINTLESS
no really

some internet weeny asking for people to just spill their guts about some not nice and very emotional stuff

nobody who has used a gun for what a gun is used for is going to say squat here

hope you like well my buddy told me his friend......

 

[shootingthebreeze]

I agree with Shadow. Regardless what the circumstances were, no one will respond to the original query of this post.
Regardless if a .45 was used in combat, the circumstancs themselves are very sensitive and personal. Taking the life of an enemy combatant is not something soldiers relish to discuss.
In the final analysis, an enemy combatant is a human being. For the respect of human life taken through war action we need to be more sensitive and not diminish that life through cavalier comments.

 

[Holo]

Your best bet is to just break it down to the ballistics.
Larger bullet traveling slower = .45
Smaller bullet traveling faster = 9mm
Happy medium = .40SW

If you hit an attacker in the chest region all of them will do the same thing.

EDIT: If you are fishing for people to spill their guts about their experiences defending their familys' good luck but that wont happen here. Go to google if you want to read that stuff.

 

[KodiakBeer]

I once shot a deer with a 165 grain Hydra Shok at 75 yards. The shot took out both lungs (missed the heart) and bullet stopped under the skin on the far side, .80ish in diameter. The buck instantly dropped right there, waved his head around for a moment and died.

I suspect the same deer shot with ball would have run away and died somewhere else.