Looking for some guidance

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Warners

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I'm just trying to do some real general calculations for the cost of reloading. I would likely be reloading 38/357 and .45 ACP, and possibly 9x18 and 9x19 down the road. Those are the pistol calibers I'd be reloading. As far as rifle, I'd be reloading for 30-30 and .30-.06, with a remote possibility of 7.62x39.

I just tried to calculate a BALLPARK cost for .45 ACP and here's what I came up with. I know the type of bullet is a huge factor, and for the calculation I wasn't looking at anything fancy, just plinking stuff.

How close are these numbers?

Primers $30 per 1,000 – 3 cents per round
Powder $25 per pound, about 1,000 rounds of .45 ACP – 3 cents per round
Bullets $25 per 100 – 25 cents per round
Brass $30 per 100 – 30 cents per round


Let me know and thanks guys,

Warner



PS - I'm thinking about ordering a Lee Classic Turret kit to get started...with pistol ammo first, and then get the additional items I'd need for rifle down the road.
 
Your numbers are pretty good except for the 45 ACP brass which seems a bit high. Also for straight walled cases once fired brass should be a good proposition which would be a LOT cheaper if you shop around and it should last for quite a few firings.
 
After the initial purchase or range pickup, I count the brass as no cost. Or you can average it out to 10 shootings, so 3 cents per round. Though you may get many more than that out of 45 brass. I think you could do much better on the bullets too. Buy Montana Gold in case qty and you're paying $16.4 per hundred. Precision Delta FMJ for 12.5 per hundred. RMR for 12.9 per hundred or a two thousand from Missouri Bullet at 9.25 per hundred.

https://www.montanagoldbullet.com/pricelist.html

http://www.shop.rmrbullets.com/product.sc?productId=20&categoryId=14

http://www.precisiondelta.com/product.php?indx=5

http://www.missouribullet.com/results.php?pageNum_rsCWResults=1&category=5&secondary=13
 
Your cost for powder, brass, and bullets are high. The cost of brass needs to be pro rated over at least 10 firings and many times you can get free brass at the range from non reloaders. I estimate the cost to load 100 rounds of 45 using FMJ bullets at $17.50.
 
I know the type of bullet is a huge factor, and for the calculation I wasn't looking at anything fancy, just plinking stuff.

Bullets $25 per 100 – 25 cents per round

That's a little high for "plinking" ammo. Look at the links that J_Mcleod listed and you should be able to do much better than .25 per round.

Look at Powder Valley for powder and primers. Bullseye, common in the .45 ACP, runs about $15 per pound and primer should be around $26 per 1k. It's $102 per 8lbs. You should be able to get cost to around .01-.02 per charge. You'd have to order enough to justify the $27 hazmat fee, but it isn't that hard once you get rolling.

Brass, even if you bought it new, would only cost you $85 per 500 from Starline and cost you roughly .17 per round.

For a "ballpark" estimation I think that your a little high, but I suppose that's better than underestimating the costs. Keep in mind that if you can buy in bulk you'll cut your costs.
 
Thanks for all the great, informative replies guys....I will follow up on all the info you provided. In the mean time....I thought I had saved some .45 brass (once fired) many years ago....and I JUST found it in my basement! I counted it out (on my digital scale that measures pieces) and I have almost 250 once fired brass cases for .45 ACP - not a bad place to start! I also have 6 boxes of once fired 30-.06 and a couple of boxes of 30-30. I guess that means I'll try doing the .45 first. Any recommendations on cleaning the brass? A tumbler looks like the easiest option, huh? What's a good, reasonable tumbler to look at?

Thanks again everyone,

Warner
 
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Thanks for asking our advice.

Any recommendations on cleaning the brass? A tumbler looks like the easiest option, huh? What's a good, reasonable tumbler to look at?

Thanks again everyone,

Warner
For 30 years I just wiped my brass clean with a soft cloth. Looked ugly, but shot just fine. The main thing you want is no grit on the brass, outside or inside. I have a tumbler now and my brass looks prettier, but shoots just the same.

Your cost figures have already been commented on, so I will just add this. I keep an eye out for sales. Wal-Mart had 45 ACP on sale a couple years ago (Remington UMC) for less than my cost of the components (primer, powder, bullets and brass). Now I have enough 45 ACP brass to last for a decade or two at least. Maybe the rest of my life.

There are some reasons to reload that go beyond money, though.

Quality: Ammo you craft yourself can be tuned to your firearms particular characteristics. Handloaders for rifles quite often find some individual guns have quite striking differences in group size when shooting tuned ammunition.

Knowledge: As you study reloading, you will, perforce, also study internal ballistics. The study of internal ballistics leads into the study of how your firearm works.

Customization: Ammo you load yourself can be tuned to your particular needs. My fried with the 500 S&W loads full power loads and "powder puff" loads that clock 350 grain slugs a little under 800 feet per second. I know that's more than a G.I. 45 ACP's power and momentum, but they shoot like 22 rimfire in that big, heavy gun. Great for fun, familiarization, training and letting the curious bystander go for a "test drive" with a super-light load, a medium load, a heavy load and, if they are still game one of the big boomers. This tends to avoid the "rear sight in the forehead" mark.

Satisfaction: Punching small bunches of small, medium or large holes in paper or bringing down a game or food animal with ammunition you crafted yourself has a good deal of satisfaction. Same reason I prefer to make my own biscuits instead of store-bought.

Smug satisfaction: When the ammo shelves are bare during a market or political scare, loaders are demonstrably less affected by the shortages. A couple of pounds of powder, a thousand primers and bullets (or few pounds of lead) and a hundred cartridge cases wouldn't fill a small book carton, but lets the loader know he can shoot while price-gougers take advantage of non-loaders.

Self-satisfaction: The repetitive, calm, attentive concentration of the reloading activities is often found to be so much fun as to bring to the shooter's mind the question, "Do I reload so I can shoot shoot or do I shoot so I can reload?". Some find loading to be as satisfying a hobby as shooting or fly-tying or many other hobbies.

The more fanatical among us combine a couple of the features I have mentioned and, instead of shooting for bullseye accuracy at the range, reload in a search for the "magic load" that achieves perfection in a given rifle. Then, they move on to the next target, another rifle and another tuned load. But you do have to be at least a little fanatical to even get it. It is the hunt they seek.


I am sure there are many other reasons, but these are the main ones I can think of.

Lost Sheep
 
I usually don't include brass in the price of reloading because I usually use once fired brass. Even if you do have to buy brass after the first time it's free from then on unless you want to amortize the cost across multiple loadings.

Here is a great Handloading Cost Calculator that will make things easier for you. Just plug in your numbers and it's quick...

I can load a box of 230gr LRN .45 Auto Ammo for $6.60 at current component prices. I can actually load 50 rounds for under $5 because I have a lot of components that were bought at a good price years ago.

I can load a box of 158gr LSWC .38 Specials for $5.34 at current component prices. A few years back when component prices were better the same 50 rounds would have cost less than $4 to load.

125gr LRN 9mm ammo cost me $5.02/50 rounds to load at current prices.

IMO $25/100 for bullets is WAY too expansive for target ammo. Why not use lead bullets? You can buy 230gr 18 BHN bullet from Missouri bullets for $43/500 bullets. The same 500 bullets at your prices will cost you $125, that's way too much and will make your ammo cost you $15/50 rounds. That's just about the cost of factory ammo. Even if you decide to load FMJ bullets they can be found for $125/1000 instead of $125/500. That would bring your cost down to $8.73/50 rounds using your prices. That's a lot better than with $25/100 bullets.

BTW, what bullets are you buying at that price? Always try to buy bulk and not in 100 piece boxes.
 
If anyone has suggestions for a good .45 ACP load for the 230gr FMJ bullets, let me know....I want to acquire the things I need to start with that. I would be NICE if the powder choice would also work for 9mm and 38/357.

Thanks again guys,

Warner
 
Well, I bit the bullet (pun intended) and placed my first orders for equipment. Here's what I ordered so far, which short of powder, primers, or bullets will get me started (in $372 so far):

From Kempfs:

Kempf Kit w/ Lee Classic Turret Press Caliber: 45acp/auto 90064Kit $209.95

Select Upgrade: Pro Auto Disk Powder Measure (+ $12.95)

Blueberry 400 Tumbler Combo $59.95



From Midway:

Lee Deluxe Carbide 4-Die Set 38/.357 $42.99

Lee Chamfer and Deburring Tool $3.79

Lee Primer Pocket Cleaner $3.49

Frankford Arsenal Impact Bullet $11.99


Warner
 
If you're planning on doing a lot of loading, bulk primer and powder orders over the internet can help to reduce the per unit cost of the hazmat shipping. If you're only using smaller quantities, local prices are usually acceptable, even with the Illinois sales tax (which various from town to town). Another way to cut casts is to order powder and primers with friends in a group order to defray some of the hazmat charge.
Where in Illinois are you? I might be able to steer you in the right direction for components.
 
If you're planning on doing a lot of loading, bulk primer and powder orders over the internet can help to reduce the per unit cost of the hazmat shipping. If you're only using smaller quantities, local prices are usually acceptable, even with the Illinois sales tax (which various from town to town). Another way to cut casts is to order powder and primers with friends in a group order to defray some of the hazmat charge.
Where in Illinois are you? I might be able to steer you in the right direction for components.
I'm in Elgin, Searcher4851.

Warner
 
If anyone has suggestions for a good .45 ACP load for the 230gr FMJ bullets, let me know....I want to acquire the things I need to start with that. I would be NICE if the powder choice would also work for 9mm and 38/357.

There are some powders that will work for all 3 calibers, though probably not the best for any. Unique is one that will work in all 3, but you probably won't get the full power out of the .357 using it. There are a couple powders that will fit the bill, but Unique is a pretty universal powder.
 
Just poking around, it seems like Hodgdon HP38 might also be a decent choice...

Warner
I agree, HP-38/W231 is a very good choice for the .45 Auto, .38 Special and 9mm. It will also do alright in the .357 Magnum especially with lead bullets although you won't generate the maximum velocities. You will need a slower powder for that job. (2400, W296/H110, AA#9, Enforcer)
 
I agree, HP-38/W231 is a very good choice for the .45 Auto, .38 Special and 9mm. It will also do alright in the .357 Magnum especially with lead bullets although you won't generate the maximum velocities. You will need a slower powder for that job. (2400, W296/H110, AA#9, Enforcer)
Thanks ArchAngelCD, I will likely start with the HP-38 then. In 357 caliber, I will be loading 38 special rounds to start, so I'm not overly concerned with getting max 357 loads out of the HP-38.

Thanks again,

Warner
 
I think I'm going to try this load that I found on the Hodgdon website, using the Precision Delt 230gr FMJ RN bullets.

(these: http://www.precisiondelta.com/detail.php?sku=B-45-230-FMJ

The load stated calls for Hornady 230gr FMJ FP bullets. Will the ones I'm looking at from Precision Delta be an exact replacement, or do I need to make some adjustments for them?


Bullet - .451" 230 gr FMJ RN (in place of the Hornady 230gr FMJ FP bullets)

Powder - Hodgdon HP 38

OAL - 1.200"

Grains Powder/Velocity/CUP

4.2 / 751 / 13,800 Min
5.3 / 832 / 16,800 Max


Sound feasible?

Warner
 
Thanks ArchAngelCD, I will likely start with the HP-38 then. In 357 caliber, I will be loading 38 special rounds to start, so I'm not overly concerned with getting max 357 loads out of the HP-38.
If you want to make a good lead .357 Magnum load try a 158 SWC bullet over 5.0gr HP-38 in a .357 Magnum case. It's heavier than a .38 Special but nowhere neat a top end magnum round. I think you will like it.

I think I'm going to try this load that I found on the Hodgdon website, using the Precision Delt 230gr FMJ RN bullets.
The load stated calls for Hornady 230gr FMJ FP bullets. Will the ones I'm looking at from Precision Delta be an exact replacement, or do I need to make some adjustments for them?

Bullet - .451" 230 gr FMJ RN (in place of the Hornady 230gr FMJ FP bullets)
Powder - Hodgdon HP 38
OAL - 1.200"
Grains Powder/Velocity/CUP
4.2 / 751 / 13,800 Min
5.3 / 832 / 16,800 Max
Sound feasible?
Warner
For some reason Hodgdon lists an OAL of only 1.200", IMO that's way too short. I load my .45 Ammo much longer and find it aids in feeding the round from the magazine. I suggest an OAL of at least 1.250" with a Max OAL of 1.270". I usually load a FMJ bullet to 1.250" and a LRN bullet to 1.260". With that OAL you can safely increase the Max charge to 5.5gr HP-38. That's the charge I use with any 230gr bullet in the .45 Auto.

These are only suggestions based on my experiences. I'm not telling you to do anything you are uncomfortable with. In the end you have to decide what you feel safe doing. NEVER trust data you get from a forum on the internet. Mistakes can and will happen and sometimes they aren't mistakes. Always check the data for yourself and if you can't verify it, don't use it!

This has been a public service announcement. And now back to our regularly scheduled programing. :p
 
If you want to make a good lead .357 Magnum load try a 158 SWC bullet over 5.0gr HP-38 in a .357 Magnum case. It's heavier than a .38 Special but nowhere neat a top end magnum round. I think you will like it.


For some reason Hodgdon lists an OAL of only 1.200", IMO that's way too short. I load my .45 Ammo much longer and find it aids in feeding the round from the magazine. I suggest an OAL of at least 1.250" with a Max OAL of 1.270". I usually load a FMJ bullet to 1.250" and a LRN bullet to 1.260". With that OAL you can safely increase the Max charge to 5.5gr HP-38. That's the charge I use with any 230gr bullet in the .45 Auto.

These are only suggestions based on my experiences. I'm not telling you to do anything you are uncomfortable with. In the end you have to decide what you feel safe doing. NEVER trust data you get from a forum on the internet. Mistakes can and will happen and sometimes they aren't mistakes. Always check the data for yourself and if you can't verify it, don't use it!

This has been a public service announcement. And now back to our regularly scheduled programing. :p
Thanks for the tips! I think I will start with 5gr of HP38 on the .45 loads. I want to start with doing the .45's (since that's the only brass I have!). I'm going to spend some time tonight trying to get the dies adjusted properly.....which I'm not REAL sure how to do, but I'll read up on it.

Thanks again,

Warner
 
Don't forget the range report when you load up and shoot that 45 Auto ammo.
Will do, ArchAngelCD. Although without a chronograph, I will only be able to comment on proper cycling and (somewhat) on accuracy as the current .45 I have is an old Sistema that isn't super accurate.....waiting for a Ruger SR1911 (like everyone else).

Here are the two loads that I will try first. I ordered the bullets from Berry's yesterday and will pick up the powder and primers from my local Cabela's before the end of the weekend.

This is the first load I’m going to try for the .45 (in red).

Berry 230gr RN plated bullet, 5.0 grains HP38, 1.265” OAL


And this is the first load I’m going to try for the .38 special (in red).

Berry's 158gr HP plated bullet, 4.3 grains HP38, 1.45” OAL


Thanks again everyone,

Warner
 
You should never start with the Max listed charge weight on any load. That 4.3gr charge weight on the .38 Special is the Max charge recommended for a Hornady XTP bullet. Berry's bullets are plated and you should use less powder than a jacketed bullet. If you don't want to use lead bullet data at lease use the starting charge weight for a jacketed bullet with according to Hodgdon is 3.8gr HP-38/W231.

Your .45 Auto load looks just fine.
 
The Berrys bullets can take max jacketed data in many calibers as long as it doesn't exceed 1300fps, but it not "suggested" to do so,the owner himself said he's run them up to 1400fps with no issues. I personally have run max in 45, but mostly stay below 90% jacketed data in the other caliber. Either way you should start at min jacketed data and work up .
 
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