Looking for that first gun, but.........

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xenophon

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[8/16/03] BIG UPDATE, see my long post further down in this thread

Looking for that first gun, but, I've never handled one before, never ever fired one. Granted I'm young (in my twenties) but I just now decided to assert my right to bear arms, mainly for self defense. Have been doing research nightly for the past month, and have learned a lot, but I had a question to pose:

If I know nothing about guns, how would I fare showing up at a shooting range? I'm new to my area so I don't have any buds to take me to the range and show me the ropes, so I'm having to go it alone. Open to idea of having instruction, but if i just wanna rent a few guns and shoot em around and decide that I like before I buy. I'm very aware of the basic 4 rules of guns, so I don't think I'd be unsafe in that aspect, but I've never loaded one, or racked a slide if ya get my drift..how hard is it to pick up? People at ranges usually friendly to newbies like myself and would take time to show a few pointers? I'm just afraid of renting that gun and not knowing what buttons do what..I'm an educated man, but I don't wanna look like an idiot...oops, too late. Anyways, suggestions?
 
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I would seriously suggest that you go to the NRA website and find a nearby Basic Pistol class. It'll teach you the basic "pieces parts" and how to load/unload and cock/decock revolvers and semi-autos in general so you at least know what sort of controls to be looking for on whatever you're shooting. Much easier to ask the guy renting it to you "where's the cylinder release (or magazine release or slide stop, etc) on this one?" The other reason to take the basic class is there is a difference between learning to shoot and learning to pull a trigger and ingrain bad habits. Better to learn the correct way to do it from the outset. It takes 3000-5000 repetitions to make something a conditioned response. It takes several thousand to break a bad habit and then 3-5000 reps to learn it right if you try to teach yourself first. I recently had a guy who had never had any real instruction so I told him I'd go to the range with him and train him. The day before he went with me, he went out on his own and fired 300 rounds. The next day he had a horrible flinch. He probably got to fire 30 live rounds with me, out of 300 trigger pulls, and I had barely started to correct the flinch when we had to call it a day. Really, get someone who knows what they're doing to train you. I think you'll be much happier with the results.

Gotta say, lovin' your screen name. :D
 
I agree about having good instruction so as to not get off on the wrong foot, or SHOOT the foot. I fly rc planes too, and that's one hobby someone can't easily pick up without instruction, so I feel you. I searched the NRA website for classes, but the nearest place to Milwaukee I could find was about 1 1/2 hours away in Rockford, IL. Granted that's not TOO bad, but I'd prefer somewhere within 30 minutes. Plus I've heard bad things about IL and gun laws, or is that just Chicago? ;) I suppose I should call some of the local ranges around here and ask what kinda instruction they offer.

I'm sure I could figure out what does what on the gun pretty quickly, and if I ever did get one, I'd read the manual front to back a few times and handle it with the ammo no where near me. As far as self defense purposes, I take it one still needs good markmanship to be "effective" so I would hate to develop bad habits. Anyways, I've been looking at Glocks, so I'm geared more towards that, I'm not really into the revolvers though I've heard those are good "first guns". I'd have no problem cleaning/maintaining a semi, and a glock looks pretty forgiving.

Glad ya like the nick.
 
There should be a place to email the NRA and ask if there are any certified instructors in your vicinity. Checking with local gun clubs is good because someone there is likely to have info. Lots of times instructors will leave their business cards at the counter of shooting ranges and gun stores.

Definitely read the manual, but I was talking about renting at a range.

Glocks are excellent guns, IMO. They are usually accurate out of the box, easy to assemble/disassemble (don't wipe out the copper goo on a new one). Very robust. They have a relatively light (standard is 5.5 lb) trigger pull for each shot and no manual safety to remember to release - a real "point and click" interface. It is a 2-stage trigger, so you have to remember to take up the slack, THEN squeeze. Smooth press to a surprise break and all that. The thing about Glocks is that the very features that make them so efficient in a fight also make them very unforgiving of poor gunhandling. If you carry one with a round in the chamber you must have it in a rigid holster, so that nothing can touch the little tab on the trigger which releases all the internal safeties, and be very careful about keeping your finger outside the triggerguard up on the frame until you're actually ready to shoot. I usually carry a cocked and locked 1911, but I'm more on my guard when carrying a Glock because there is no manual safety to release.
 
Good advise so far, I'll have to do some research to find some good instructors around me, the usual search pages haven't yielded around here. Time to do it the old fashioned way and pick up the phone. If any of you happen to know good contacts around Milwaukee, send me a PM.

Your description of the glock is exactly what drew me towards it...simple point and click. I was always wondering about how the glock would be as a carry weapon due to the "no external safety" other than the trigger safety thing. Though I've heard it has good internal safeties and I like the fact if you drop the glock, you don't have to worry about an AD (though I will strive to never drop it!!)

Another thing I've thought about is recoil vs self defense for my first gun...i mean, I want my first gun to be a good self defense gun, so I've looked at the 40 S&W glocks. Yet, I've read lighter recoil guns are better to train on, so I'm kinda stuck on what to do. I figure I better try out the 9MM and 40 first to see how I handle them, and that's why my whole idea of going to the range first came up. (I am correct in saying 9mm is easier to train on that 40sw right?)

x
 
Yes, the Glock is "drop safe". They've dropped them from a helicopter at 2000' and it didn't go off. But if anything depresses the safety release you are only 5.5-lb away from an accident. You've got to decide for yourself if the "pluses" outweigh the "minuses".

I like .40 or better for self-defense. I occasionally carry a 9mm or .38+P's in a .357, but my preferred cartridge is the .45 ACP. It makes a hole almost 1/2" in diameter even if the hollowpoint doesn't expand, and it typically has less blast and flash and a less "snappy" recoil because it is not such a high pressure round. (IMO the smaller calibers try to make up for lack of diameter and mass by making the bullet go faster to get the hollowpoint to open reliably and penetrate suffieciently, which means higher pressure, which typically means more blast and flash and a sharper recoil.) Bottom line is that the 9x19 or .40 S&W will get the job done as long as you stay cool and remember that it's not hitting something that is important, it's hitting something important that's important, and you have to do that with a .45 too. One important thing about the 9mm is that if you don't reload, the factory ammo is cheaper and the more you can afford and the more you shoot the better you get. Shooting is not like riding a bike. It's a perishable skill, more like learning a foreign language. You have to make a little time for it every day and do 10-15 minutes of dry fire practice. Lots of short sessions with a sleep period in between helps wear a track into your motor memory so that when you actually go out to shoot your subconscious is less likely to betray you by getting you to flinch, or heel, or ride the recoil, or thumb, or lobster the gun (all problems due to anticipation and your mind knowing "THIS IS GOING TO BE UNPLEASANT!") If you can try the Glock in the various calibers that is definitely the way to go. Recoil perception tends to be a rather individual thing. Some guys don't want to carry a .45 ACP because it's just "too much gun" for them. My wife's about 5'4" and carries a 1911 .45 because that's what she shoots the best in IPSC and IDPA and 3-Gun competition. But she doesn't like .45 ACP in a revolver where she absorbs all the recoil.
 
If you don't want to look like a newb then don't rent a glock as your first handgun. I'd Rent a .22 handgun because the ammo is very cheap, 500 rounds for 10 bucks rather then .10 cent a round , they also have very little kick. Then when you learn to shoot and feel confident with a gun step up to the bigger guns. This is a very popular .22 handgun http://www.ruger-firearms.com/Firearms/PDF/01.pdf
 
Welcome- I was in your shoes in November 02, and look how far I've come.
What I did was contrary to all advice - I bought a gun never having held one before. Though I now see it would have been smart to rent some first, but I was kinda intimidated by the whole range thing. I got over it fast as it really wasn't too complicated; just follow all their rules which they are most likely to have posted everywhere!

I would recommend a revolver, they are much less complicated than a semiauto. I got a 4" .38 Special, though a lot of people suggest a .357 Magnum because you can also shoot .38s. Get it, play with it (respecting the 4 rules!). I practiced loading and unloading it so I wouldn't look like a fool at the range. I also read the owner's manual many times and got as much info off the internet as I could.

A warning, though, once you get one gun you're gonna want another!
 
After you learn the mechanics of how guns work, they are very very simple and 50 parts seem like 4 or 5.
 
Now am I sure we have a Wisconsin member or two who would be glad to take you shooting and show you the ropes.

So far you are on the right track because you actually realize that instruction is needed. There are so many guys who think they know how to shoot because it is some genetically ingrained hunter/gatherer skill.

Seriously take a pistol course from the NRA or a local range. If that is not available put the call out to the THR membership. We seem to have members everywhere and I ams sure there would be somebody close enough to you who would jump at the chance to help.

First gun, I suggest a .22 but since it's expensive to buy guns and you mentioned self defense I am going to say a 9mm. Easy to shoot, cheap, available, lots of platforms to shoot it from, and lots of different types of ammo.

Personally I think I would suggest CZ, Glock or Beretta simply because they all have .22 conversion kits available for them and you simply cannot discount the amount of training and practice a .22 will give you, not to mention the fact that 9 out of 10 gun owners agree that whether you are a new shooter or an old sniper.......22 is just TOO FUN not to have.

Chris
 
Oh yeah and instead of telling you what guns are good, as many, many are here are a couple that probably are NOT good choices.

AVOID THESE
Lorcin
Davis
Bryco
Raven
Hi-Point (We have members that like them and some of their stuff seems to work pretty well but I still feel they fall into this category.......but they are the best of this category :D)

NOT GREAT BUT NOT DANGEROUS
Charles Daily
Low end 1911 variants

I am sure that we will have people add or disagree with this list but overall those top ones are the junk guns of the industry with hi-point actually making strides to work there way up from junk to low end value.

Basically assume your first gun is going to cost right around $450-$600 to get a good quality semi auto or revolver new in box. If you buy a semi auto budget for an extra magazine or two and ONLY BUY FACTORY MAGAZINES or MEC-GAR brand. As a rule other aftermarket magazines are much cheaper but are very very hit and miss on whether they work right. You spend the bucks on a quality gun give it quality parts and ammo.

Also consider some kind of way to secure the gun when you are not in possession of it. Not just for kids, but nosy adults and burglers.

Whatever you buy, in the immortal words of our shotgun guru Dave, McCracken BA/UU/R. Buy ammo, use up, repeat. Ammo is the best accessory you can buy. Forget about laser sights, combat lights, wings, fins, am/fm radio and for the forseable future just buy ammo and shoot. It's takes a while but eventually the manual of operation of your firearm will become like second nature.

When it does don't get compacient about safety. Always check the chamber twice when you want the gun to be unloaded(handing it to somebody, cleaning etc.)

Know and love the rules of safe shooting.

Stay safe, have fun,

Chris
 
Instructions

Call around to some local gun stores/ranges. Sometimes they will offer some basic instruction. A place I visit in Atlanta does so, maybe there is one in your area.

Some previously mentioned advice that I agree with (assuming some instruction):

Rent one (or more) .22 handguns at a range, you can shoot them a long time for little cost. Shoot them a lot. Practice matters a lot.

A revolver is a good first gun. When you want to step up in caliber a S&W (L frame) is heavy enough that .38 special has very mild recoil but when shooting .357 magnum is plenty powerful enough for just about any home defense scenario.

But, it is hard to stop at just one; my Sig was followed by a desire for a BIG revolver hence my 686 ( no logical reason, just wanted a BIG revolver), followed by a Beeman P3 ( wanted to practice in my yard ) followed by a Browning Buckmark ( just wanted a nice .22 ).
 
Nobody ever listens to me, but your first purchase should be a .22. After you've got about 10k rounds downrange from that gun you'll know enough to make a wise choice in a centerfire gun.

Keith
 
i started out with a 9mm, and nearly 2 yrs later, i'm still fighting off a horrible flinch.
the .22lr helps, and dryfiring my p22 which has a super-duper-ultra-extreme-biggiesize DA pull has helped increase hand strength. i'm serious, its like close to 15 lbs pull!

remember than once you start shooting, most obstacles in your path towards accuracy lie within yourself. i find that firing from a bench reminds me that its my grip that is incorrect, it is my breath control that is not right, it is my heel that pushes the muzzle down as the trigger breaks.

buy some gun rags, read them, and buy some more. compare their results to what is found on these forums.
 
The only reason I'd buy a revolver is just to have one. I don't think you can't go wrong buying a popular model of a 9mm autoloader like a Glock H&K , Sig, Taurus , Beretta, Ruger, S&W etc. But a .22 should be the first gun you buy or if you got the money, both.
 
Ok, so it's pretty scary to be married to someone who takes the words out of my mouth all the time. I was reading the first couple of posts, thinking to myself, "We've got to have some THR members nearby to help this guy out."

Bueller? Bueller? Anyone?

Sheslinger
 
Nobody ever listens to me, but your first purchase should be a .22. After you've got about 10k rounds downrange from that gun you'll know enough to make a wise choice in a centerfire gun.
Click to expand...

Ditto to Keith (see, we are listening). You can get a good .22 for ~$300 that you will enjoy shooting for years -- even if you do move up. Ruger and Browning make excellent .22 autoloading pistols that will still outshoot 80% of us on this board after 10K rounds. Although there ARE better caliber choices, a .22 still beats a baseball bat or a call to 911 for immediate self-defense.

I suggest visiting a few gunshops in Milwaukee and asking your same question. If the guys are jerks, just say "thanks, you've been a big help!", walk out and never look back. If they are helpful, they will probably show you a few options, let you handle different guns and probably connect you with a good instructor.

Another good place to get advice is at a local range. Stop by and ask if they have any upcoming seminars on gun safety, NRA bullseye, IDPA, etc. Go and watch a bowling pin tournament (knocking over a set of bowling pins as fast you can shoot. It's a hoot.). Tell them you're a newbie and I'll bet they'll either help you out themselves or give you the name of an instructor.

There is a lot of bluster, pontification and BS in the firearm trining community, but if you get past the loudmouths, you'll find many good folks who have a lot of knowledge -- even from many of the loudmouths.:D

It would probably help if you can tell us how you plan to use your gun. There's no CCW in Wisconsin as far as I know, so a nice big wheelgun like a .357 Ruger or S&W seems like a next logical step from the .22, but there is certainly nothing wrong with autoloaders.

There is also nothing wrong with starting out with a .22 rifle to learn the basics of shooting. Rifles are safer (harder to point at yourself) and more accurate out to longer distances. Many an expert marksman started out hunting squirrels with a beater .22 rifle.

Do you have a range or open area w/ a good backstop where you can go shoot?
 
I searched the NRA website for classes, but the nearest place to Milwaukee I could find was about 1 1/2 hours away in Rockford, IL.
Click to expand...

I talked to the guy in Rockford about 3 years ago. At that time he was not actively doing any instruction for lack of having any place to do it.:mad:
 
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Get yourself a BB pistol and a book on shooting technique (someone could probably recommend a link that offers basic technique on the net) then practice. Start out shooting at close distances (be sure to have a good backstop) and obsess over technique, accuracy and safety.

After you get good with the BB gun, call a range and ask what they have to rent then look up the manual on the net. After you have familiarized yourself with how everything works, go rent it.


PS:For an immediate home defense gun, go out and get a single shot, 20ga, shotgun for less than $100 and a box of the cheapest shells you can find. A single shot shotgun is so simple I would venture to say that anyone, of average intelligence, could use it in an emergency without having ever fired one before. After you get into the grove of things you can sell it for about what you paid for it of just keep it.
 
Good stuff so far guys, I appreciate the input.

So besides the point that .22 ammo is much cheaper, what advantages dues a 22 have as a first gun as opposed to a 9mm or even a .40 ? As one of you asked, what was the purpose of me getting a gun? Well, I just wanted to have something to good home self defense. I know WI doesn't allowed concealed carry, but I have been closely watching legislation and it looks like this one Senator here is actively trying to push a law for concealed carry (see http://www.legis.state.wi.us/senate/sen23/news/ppa1.htm )

Seeing that the WI supreme court had a ruling urging laws to be put down clarifying carry laws, I think there is a good chance of having concealed carry within the year. In light of that, and the fact I want a gun soley for self defense, that's why I'm looking at a bigger gun than a .22. Being just outta college I ain't that rich yet so that's why I figure 1 gun for now is more realistic than two. I understand the point a .22 is better than a bat or knife, and that even a shotgun is better for home defense, but I just can't keep a shotgun in my apartment.

Looking at ammo, I see there is tons of choices out there, good lord! I take it JHP must be good for self defense. If I were to purchase like Speer Gold dots or Federal 165gr Hydro-points, what would be a good ammo to use at the range for practice? I get that I should practice with my defense ammo but also realize that is pretty expensive so I guess I would have to take turns with that.

One idea I got is that I could go ahead and purchase a 9mm or .40 (I'm sorry, but I just can't take my off the Glock 23 right now) and go to the range a lot and rent .22's and shoot the heck out of it before I even shoot my glock...at least that way I could still have a glock at home for self defese, dry fire it, get to know the workings of it, while still practicing at the range with a .22 to begin with? Sound reasonable? Also, I just found out my girlfriend has a friend who's father is big into NRA and guns so I'm gonna find out if he could teach me some things.

Also, as a side note, I should point out that my gf used to be VERY ANTI-GUNS, saying she'd never have them around her no matter what.....well, over the past few weeks, I found good facts on this message board about how guns are much less of a danger to kids than other things and other good facts on safety and stories of guns being used in self defense, and I finally got through to her and reversed all her tv new media stereotypes/influences about guns being bad, and she agreed to me going down to the range and having a gun in the house, how bout that!
 
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