Looking for tips to put in CCW class

[cobb]

I am teaching state mandated classes (NRA) for applying for a conceal carry permit in Minnesota. I am looking for some good tips to bring up in class for discussion that would be beneficial to the students. One thing I bring up is that if you ever have to show your weapon to stop a confrontation, as soon as the situation has de-escatated, run, don't walk to the nearest phone and call 911, and I mean now. Get your story to the police of what happened before the bad guys make up a story and call the police and make you out as the bad guy. I also ask the question "what do you plan to do with your CCW if you have to drop pants in a restroom stall", that usually gets some interesting thought and discussion.
So any tips or info would be appreciated, no matter how weired it may appear on the surface, it may just help out keep an innocent person stay out of a bad situation.

Thanks

 

[DigMe]

You probably already thought of this but probably going over all the popular carry methods that are discussed here. I don't see how it would be harmful to also mention the most popular holsters by name either. Milt Sparks VM2, Comp-Tac CTAC, Kramer Confidant, Smartcarry etc... It sounds like an endorsement but I think it'd be helpful to people judging by the threads here.

brad cook

 

[cobb]

I go over carry options, iwb and pocket holsters, concealment vests, and how I don't personally like day planners and why. The NRA wants the instructors to stay away from endorsing any products by name, but that is really hard to do when I show my Kahr PM9 in a pocket holster.

 

[Greg L]

Tell them that in the beginning that they will thing that they are wearing a neon sign advertising their CCW. They aren't and most people are too oblivious/caught up in their own lives to care about them. So go about your business and quit putting your hand on it every 30 seconds to either make sure that it is still there or to check if you are printing.

Greg

 

[Partisan Ranger]

You probably know this, but one thing I learned in my Basic Pistol class when I got my CCW was this - don't EVER point that gun at someone unless you are G.D. sure your life is in danger. Don't even think about pulling it and pointing it if somebody is breaking into your car, for example. You've got a pretty sure ticket to the slammer unless you can prove your life was at risk.

 

[Carnitas]

I'd stress the importance of having a travel vault in their vehicle for when they need to doff a weapon and they are not at home.

Since you're not suposed to endorse specific products you might just point out that with holsters, belts, guns, etc you generally get what you pay for.

You might endorse shooting web sites like THR and GT as places to go to solicit views on equipment, addnl training, tactics, etc.

WRT to contacting the police after an "event"... The most clear way to present it is to say "The person that calls the police first earns the presumption of being the innocent victim". That pesumption can save you an overnight in the jail and $10k in lawyers fees.

Stress the importance of regular practice. Two boxes a year wont get it done. In conjunction with that you might get someone from the local IDPA/USPSA club to come in and do 10 minutes on their sport and issue an invite to a match and new shooters orientation. You might also put together a list of local gunstores, ranges, and rual shooting areas.

Provide links to other training outfits and discuss the dramatic difference in survivability that can be had from advanced commercial training.

You'll have to address the "What do I do when I get pulled over and I'm straped?" question.

 

[powerstrk]

I would recommend this bookEverything you need to know about (legally) carrying a handgun in Minnesota Excellent book by Joel Rosenberg

 

[critter]

In the case of an actual shooting, call 911 IMMEDIATELY. DO NOT have your weapon displayed when the police appear as you DO NOT want to get shot for your trouble. SAY VERY LITTLE-name, address, etc. Call your lawyer. Your line is: "I was threatened with severe bodily harm or death, was in fear and was forced to defend myself. I tried ONLY to STOP the perp, nothing more". End of your story!

 

[IRONFIST]

This might be sound crazy, but it worked for me. Have a couple of firearms(a couple of pistols and a revolver) displayed on a table. Have them come up one at a time and pick a gun to "see what the trigger pull is like". Don't let them know that you have a primered case in the revolver. Tell them that they need to assume every gun is always loaded, but that you checked all of these and they are fine to pull the trigger on. Tell the student to point the revolver at a far wall with no one around and to pull the trigger. I guarantee that everyone will snap to attention when it goes BANG!, then you can explain thats exactly why they always have to personally check any gun they handle. You just might save a life with this demonstration. A friend of my fathers did this to me and I will ALWAYS remember to be safe. Give it some thought....

Michael in Sandy, OR

 

[Standing Wolf]

Hello, IRONFIST!

Good suggestion! I'm going to remember that.

 

[Shooter 2.5]

1. The NRA rules for firearms safety aren't very good. I like Jeff Cooper's four rules.

2. Going to a stall isn't that difficult. Just keep the top of the pants above the knee. Don't unholster, it leads to problems like dropping it or worse, moisture of a horrible kind on the gun.

3. Hawaiiian shirts are the best for warm weather with a IWB holster.

4. Deviating too much from the program could get you in trouble later. Your speech should be a carbon copy of the NRA members in the next class. That doesn't mean you can't add little bits and pieces like this.

5. Samurai had to draw blood if they removed their sword from the sheath. It stopped unintentional branishing. If they didn't attack an enemy, they had to take a drop of two of their own blood before they could put the sword back. Legend? Perhaps, but today, it would be a 10,000 dollar lawyer fee if you accidently pulled when you didn't have to.

6. A concealed weapon also means, DON'T TALK ABOUT IT WHEN YOU'RE CARRYING. An anti gun lib doesn't necessarily have to see it to rat you out because of a over heard conversation. And it's not like half deaf shooters are that quiet in public places. Also "Friends" asking if you're carrying should be ignored.

7. A spare ammo pouch on the opposite side does a miraculous job of balancing things out.

8. Don't skimp on the belt. Pay a premium for a good thick one from a holster company.

9. Don't wear any gun related clothing when you're carrying. Concealment remember?

10. If approached by and officer in the car, keep your hands on the steering wheel where they can be seen. On the street, fold your arms in front of you. Move at his/her direction only.

 

[SRYnidan]

Remind folks that they need to have other options. The leap from verbal engagement to lethal force is huge. What are they going to do about this void? What are they going to do with the person who tries to grab push strike them that does not meet the threshold for lethal force?

Remind them that an untested plan is only half a plan (I will run away doesn’t work for a woman who normally wears dress pumps).

 

[GSB]

One thing that made an impression on me at Front Sight was the painful description of the legal and financial hell you may very well endure for years if you are involved in a lethal force incident. It may serve to sober up some of the class cowboys (in my CCW we had a couple of guys whose questions seemed to be tailored to finding a loophole that would let them shoot somebody on slim pretext and get away with it).

 

[Sleeping Dog]

Ironfist, bad idea.

Some moron will pick up the gun and point it at his head or his buddy's head, then pull the trigger.

And somehow, this will be your fault.

Regards.

 

[cobb]

What will be my fault is how I physically eject thet person from the classroom for pointing that weapon in such a manner.

 

[Carnitas]

Bad idea a primer going of is loud enough to ring your ears in an enclosed space.

 

[willyjixx]

id make em get a holster an provide a bunch of "Dummy" guns of popular brands an make em wear them for the whole class duration.

 

[spacemanspiff]

i dont know if you are going to also take the applicants to a range to qualify for accuracy, but if you do, make sure NO ONE handles their weapon on a cold range. designate a specific area for them to do such. when i qualified, i wound up walking ten yards away from the group because half a dozen idiots kept tinkering with their weapon, figuring out how to load it, testing trigger pull, pistols were in and out of pockets constantly, very unsafe!

 

[cobb]

Cold range, all firearms stay cased until that person is on the firing line and told to uncase the weapon. They go through their range qualification and the handgun is cased before they leave the firing line.

 

[F4GIB]

The Aker polymer lined belt at $29.99 from www.galls.com is a BEST BUY.

The EVERYTHING book is published by AACFI and available to instructors at a discount through their web site at www.aacfi.com.

 

[cobb]

The book is offered at a discount to AACFI instructors, and knowing what I know, that is an option I do not want to pursue.

Most of the things mentioned, I do try to cover, but I did pick up a couple new things for discussion in class.

Thanks guys and gals.

 

[Watchman]

Dont know if you cover this or not, but we do...

Show the class the differences in .380,9x18,9mm,9Mag, and explain that the ammo MUST say the same thing as what is printed on the gun.

Some people just assume or perhaps are incorrectly told that a 9x18 will function just fine in a 9mm, when in fact it wont. We have had students bring 380 ammo for their 9mm's, .357 ammo for their .38's and .45 LONG ammo for their .45's.

We have once fired cases glued to a board that we use as a training aid by passing it around for everyone to see. We also have various types of bullets glued to a board.

I once intervened at the range when I saw an older gentelmen banging his slide on the table to get it to close. What he had done was load a .380 cartidge into a 9mm, and the slide only lacked about a 1/16 of an inch of closing up. Had he managed to fully seat the 9mm and fire the gun, you can imagine what would have happended to him and the guy at the next table standing beside him.

In dealing with law enforcement, tell them that is is NOT a good idea to show the officer the gun unless he requests to see it. At a "shoot/dont shoot" class, taken by deputys here, one of the scenarious was that of an elderly woman being stopped and immediatley showing the officer the gun that her son in law got her for protection.Even though it was totally innocent, she broke all of the common sense rules and pointed it at the officer,finger on the trigger and wanted to hand it to him form the window.
At least half of the officers "fired" at her. Upon review, the true intent of the woman was seen, unfortunatley, it was misinterpreted by the officers way too many times.

Also, altough I've seen it happen here on numerous occasions, the local resturaunt parking lot is not the place to show off ones new piece.

I once went on a call about two subjects "brandishing " weapons at each other, I was less than a block away went I got the call. Other units were called, we figured a fight was about to take place. What I encountered were two friends comparing the difference between a HK fullsize and the Compact versionand they were completely unaware of the funny looks they were getting from some of the people entering the restraunt. Although no big deal to most in this state, it was a couple from a notriously antigun state up north that was passing though and decided it was time to eat. After a breif discussion with the suspects and the complainants, all was well. However, in a big city, high crime area, it could have gotten somewhat ugly.

These are just a few things that we have incorporated into our classes over time. Maybe they'll help.

 

[NRA Instructor]

Read carefully what Watchman has written. In our classes we recommend that if you are pulled over in your car by an officer, for any reason, keep your hands in sight on the wheel of the car. When the officer talks to you inform him/her that you have a permit and are armed. Do this in conversation, don't move your hands. This is very important if the officer ask you to get out of your car.
Most uniformed officers support the right to carry but when they stop you it is a stressful minute or two for them. They have no idea who you are or what your going to do.
Use common sense, put yourself in the officers shoes for a minute.
A tip, get an pro-carry officer to speak to your classes. Then the students will hear more on what to do and what not to do. The group of instructors I work with is fortunate to have an officer as one of us.

 

[TheOtherOne]

Also "Friends" asking if you're carrying should be ignored.

Yeah, I hate that. I have a friend that knows I have a CCW and knows I usually carry and whenever I see him he's always asking me something like "So, you packing?" or "Where's your pistola?" and he does it right in front of others... I've found it best to just outright lie: "Nah, I don't carry it too often" or say something totally outrageous to turn into a laugh, "What? Can't you see the AK-47 stuffed down my pants?" To just ignore him would be like saying yes.

 

[Waitone]

Spend an hour painting a picture of what will happen when they have to use a concealed weapon. Make sure they understand that a righteous shoot from a legal standpoint is irrelevant to the civil side of the law. Explain how they can legally be clear and still suffer complete and total economic destruction because of the nature of civil law. Then get them to commit to lobbying for a "make my day law."