looking into an AR-15, but know nothing

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Vinja

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hello all, as the title says im looking into building an AR rifle for mostly fun plinking, but also as a SHTF and general defensive rifle. i know nothing about what is considered good or not, but prefferably i like the simplicity of the A1 upper and the fixed carrying butt stock is a must, most likely a 20" barrel.

basically what im looking to make is a dead nuts reliable rifle that is as simple as possible, i also am a fan of iron sights so im not even thinking about putting an optic on it thus my preference for the fixed carrying handle. what are some reliable manufacturers to get the parts from? i dont have alot of cash so this will probably be going on over a few months.

so any advice on what to get would be massively appreciated guys, thanks in advance.

P.S. - im not looking to make a target rifle by any means, just a defensive rifle.
 
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The moment someone mentions the chart, ignore the rest of what they have to say. It's out of date, and assigns unbalanced weight to questionable details. The intentions were good, but some people use it as the end-all, be all reference to AR's. It's not.

I assembled my rifle. Rock River Arms stripped lower, CMMG upper. It's been flawless for several thousand rounds. No complaints. If I were to buy a factory assembled battle rifle, I'd look at Spikes. Good parts, good product, excellent factory support. But this is true of most of the major AR players these days.

For a varmint gun, RRA. BCM is/was the flavor of the month a while ago. It's also pretty good gear. Colt is also good. Best advice I could probably give is head over to AR15.com. There's good information there, but also a lot of trolls.
 
hey thanks alot i will check out ar-15.com, i mainly just want to get good parts, probably starting with the upper then moving onto the lower, trying to find a good A1 or possibly A2 fixed carry handle receiver. is there any major differences between the two aside form the sighting system? like will the same parts work in either?
 
Checking out AR15.com is a very good idea. Another site that tends to be populated by a higher percentage of professional users is m4carbine.net http://www.m4carbine.net

As far as the "chart" is concerned, it no longer compares features by brand as the number of manufacturers has expanded tremendously and this has caused some previous manufacturers to upgrade construction methods at a rate that's hard to keep up with.

In it's current guise, it's a great reference for nomenclature and specifications of the features on the AR series rifle.

http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pwswheghNQsEuEhjFwPrgTA&single=true&gid=5&output=html

IMHO, for fighting rifles, currently the "gold standard" for AR rifles is Colt. They have top quality and the best known name and reputation. You will pay a slight premium for that.

Next is Bravo Company Manufacturing ("BCM"). They have a tremendous following on AR15.com and m4carbine.net among those who seriously use their AR rifles for their intended purpose. BCM quality is at least as good as Colt's and they are very well known and respected in the AR community. As they are not as well known in the general firearms community or as old as Colt you pay slightly less for a better product and better CS (IMHO).

The last one I'll mention is Spikes Tactical. A relative up and comer, I think they are currently the best "bang for the buck" in 100% milspec (semiauto) fighting AR rifles. They just don't have the history of QC/CS of a Colt or BCM, yet.

There are many other good manufacturers out there that produce wonderful ARs of all flavors and styles from ultra light carbon fiber to heavy bbl. sub moa precision rifles in just about every caliber you can imagine.

You can have an AR any way you want it from .22 rimfire to .50 BMG even a crossbow!

Go lurk on the above websites read, learn and good luck with a great rifle!
 
A1 and A2 upper parts fitting, aside from the rear sight assembly, are essentially the same (some differences in brass deflectors and handguards which do not affect parts usage). As you probably know, the difference is in the sight - A1 adjustable for windage only - A2 adjustable for windage and elevation.
Neither should have M4 feed ramps, but if they do, a barrel extension with M4 feed ramps is a better fit.
Good luck with your project!
 
thanks alot for the advice guys! just what i was hoping for, it helps alot. and im going to try to find an A1 upper as i think i prefer the simplistic sight assembly. i will also be looking into both bcm and spikes for parts now, i dont need the colt name if the others are just as or almost as good.

thanks a million guys, im checking out the other forums as i type this.
 
The moment someone mentions the chart, ignore the rest of what they have to say. It's out of date, and assigns unbalanced weight to questionable details.
Click to expand...

I am curious as to which details you think are questionable?

Anyway. I suggest you check out M4carbine.net. read and do some searching. they will point you in the right direction.

I am also curious as to why you want an A1 style rifle for your stated purpose.
 
@cemetary- as long as they work well that'd be perfect, after doing quick searches the only a1 upper i can find is made by dpms, havent seen anyone mention them so not sure if they are any good or not?
 
@kwelz - i feel id prefer the simpler sighting system IMO the simpler somethign is the more reliable it will be, if there is a downside to going A1 as opposed to A2 other then different sites i will go with the A2 for sure. but from what i understand parts seem to be interchangeable between the two models? if thats wrong please let me know so i can stop bothering looking for the A1 receiver.

as i said, im not above admitting i know next to nothing about ar's other then basic knowledge :) all my shooting has been with pistols, shotguns , bolt rifles, lever guns, and AK's owned by my brother and dad.
 
I edited the post above with a link.
I'm not recommending anything, just passing along options for the stated preference for A1. I have no idea what quality or twist rate the barrel may be, or what you might want. But, you could use a barrel and lower of your choice.
I competed with and was an armorer for A1s and A2s. If you make a lot of sight adjustments, the A2 is handier. At some point, the fixed stock was changed to a 3/4" longer version, which I prefer. For the matches we shot, the flat bottom triangular handguards were a little better IMHO.
 
I would skip any type of carry handle receiver and go with a Flattop receiver. This way you can add either a fixed or flip up sight and still have the option for a good quality Aimpoint.

For your purpose I would suggest looking at a more flexible weapon.
 
Since you are going with a 20" - get a 1/7 twist. This should allow to easily reach 600yds with the right ammo. The flat top will give more options for sights. I would get the fully adjustable rear sight. Check out RRA NM. They make a NM rear sight that is detatchable. Then you could have choice of scope/optics/long range iron or up close iron sights.
Other than that a float tube might be nice. There are float tubes that go under the handguards as well as the normal float tube.
 
Yikes. Look at the thread called 'First Tactical Rifle' and try the Search feature. There are lots of folks who want one and know nothing and they post every week or so. ;)
 
Don't buy anything yet, read more.

Without knowing the terrain, especially indoors, it's hard to recommend a rifle type. State? Country? Suburb? City? Farm? would be handy.

But what you metioned is a terrible example of a home defense AR. Fixed stock, 20", A1's are relics. Great for hanging above the fireplace next to a rusty M1 and a Mosin.

Basic A1's are cheaper, a bit lighter, and simple. But better features don't have to be heavy, complex, or unreliable. But they allmost allways are expensive. Light, reliable, fast, accurate combined can get pricey. But you only have to build one, it'll last the rest of your life.

-14.5" is best for 300y or less defense. 16" is a compromise. Even my long range specific SPR is only 18". I only recommend 20" when someone absolutely won't get longer rifle length FF rails ever. In that rare case the 20" is nice becuase its long handguards still allow an agressive forward stance.

-The Magpul UBR works as well as the fixed stock, but allows fine adjustment if your useing a variable scope or are stuck in prone. It has a quick detent, so that you can go from your prone setting to your standard standing setting in a heartbeat.

-rifle length rails are nice for a longer agressive grip, and you'll need a light mounted for defense.

-A1 iron sights, for me and many others, are nearly useless at night. And slow during the day. Alos I can't shoot irons with my weaker eye, but I shoot ambi fine with a red dot

An Aimpoint T1 in a Larue tall mount will stomp irons in speed and precision CQB under stress.

Some shooters prefer irons and that is fine. But there are very few of those, that wouldn't still grab a 1x red dot if their lives depended on it and the 1v was available.

At least get a flat top. The carry handle sight on flat tops are just as good and simple as a A1. But you aren't stuck.

Check out ar15.coms many pic threads. Check out BCM's website to see how many upper variations are out there.
 
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For a defensive rifle/plinking gun, you should always buy the gun based on the most taxing role it may see. If you even think you might be considering it for defensive uses, you should buy a more "milspec" gun. It will still plink well, but will work for your most critical potential use better than a "non-milspec" gun.

In the "milspec" category, I recommend Colt, Bravo Company, Spikes Tactical and Daniel Defense. Colt is considered the best by some, but I believe you can get as much gun for less money with the other mentioned brands. Bravo Company is the most versatile in terms of building what you want. Spikes is the most cost effective. Daniel Defense comes with some of the best rail systems ever designed and fit and finish is second to none. Check them out and choose the one you like, but any of these brands will get you a quality firearm suitable for your planned use.
 
Vinja, I recommend you give flattop ARs another look. The problem with an A1 or A2 is that once you buy that, you are stuck with it and the only way to change your mind is to buy a new upper receiver for $90-100 and swap them out, which requires some specialized tools or a gunsmith with those tools.

If you buy a flattop upper, there are dozens upon dozens of iron sights that will attach to the Picatinny rail. You can have A1 sights, A2 sights, HK drum sights, M1 National Match sights, Express sights, etc. You can even get a detachable carry handle if you are really set on a carry handle. If it later turns out you don't like that option, all you have to do is unscrew the locknut and replace that sight with the new sight of your choice. No gunsmith or specialized tools required.

And if at some future date, you change your mind on optics, you will have that option too.
 
agree with bartholomew,

You can always buy a carry handle and put it on your flat top. If you decide you want a optic or lighter setup you can just take it off.

Why limit yourself with just the a1 upper? There are so many things you can do to create a custom ar there is a good chance you'll want to try some different setups.
 
I really love my Bushmaster 5.56 M4 type carbine. I got the fixed carry handle thinking "I only want to use iron sights." Guess what? Now I want some optics, so now I have to spend an extra $100 to get a flat top receiver. You'll probably end up changing your mind eventually. Even if you don't the flip up iron sights are better than the fixed carry handle in many ways.

My advice is to get an optics ready carbine from Bushmaster, S&W or Stag Arms. Then put the iron sights, or optics you want on it yourself.
 
I agree with WNTFW's idea of getting a 1:7 twist. I have 5.56 AR's in 1:7 (sabre def) and 1:9 (bushy), a 1:9 is good enough for most people. However, if you get into sitting down and lobbing something over a few hundred yards, 1:7 is the way to go. It will easily stabilize a 77gr match bullet, even some 80 grainers (good luck getting it to fit in your mag) better than a 1:9 by a good bit from my experience. Mine still goes as light as the 55gr when I want to shoot cheap stuff (monarch, wolf, tula) which is nice when I want to go through a good bit. No problems with stabilizing or the "powder ball" or "fragmenting" problem from spinning too quick that I've heard people talk about. On the other hand, if you aren't planning on doing any distance shooting, I would stick with a standard 16" carbine length barrel. I like the way 20 inchers look, when set up right, but have just never sprang to buy one. A free floated heavy barrel (stainless) target gun with a fixed stock and a flattop comes to mind. You don't gain much, ballistically with the longer barrel and if you are having to maneuver with it, it can be a little harder to swing the extra 4 inches. It's all about what you're really wanting to do with the rifle, and if you like the way a 20" looks over a 16", by all means go for it! Just remember to take into consideration the maneuverability if you are planning to use it as a defense weapon, especially HD. Also, without a bit of studying and comparing, building an AR can get tricky. It is a good way to get exactly what you want, but not always a way to save tons of money like some people claim. If you find a complete lower and a complete upper with features you like, and want to put them together, different story! 2 pins and you're done! If you're wanting to get more detailed and buy specific parts, Look for Mil Spec ratings and things will usually go together much easier. Just my 2 pennies.
 
thank you all so much for the advice, i am going to get a flat top configured weapon now, most likely a bcm upper as ive seen alot of great things about the quality of them. i was also thinking of a rock river lower, they seem to be good for the money form what ive researched, and from what ive seen lowers arent nearly as important to function as uppers are?

well that's the plan now, thoughts? criticisms? thanks alot guys you really helping me out here.

another thing to consider is the ak platform now, my brother said he would give me a great deal on a slightly used saiga 7.62x39 he was going to build to go alongside his arsenal but after he bought it got the urge to do something different and bought a 5.45. about a dozen rounds through it to test he said for $250, only problem with that is waiting for when he gets off deployment to buy it lol. this might turn out to be a better deal, i just ahve to think on which platform id rather build on.


p.s- i misspoke when i said HD, i meant to say property defense as i have a fully functional shotgun servign the HD role. i realize the longer barrel would get in the way of that, this is mostly just for plinking, having fun with and for defense in SHTF (god forbid) situation.
 
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I think the BCM upper is one of the best options. Lowers are less important than the upper components as long as they are in spec. And the RRA should be in spec. I don't like their uppers but the lowers seems solid enough.
 
buy whatever you can get the best deal on and fits YOU the best.. most ARs are pretty much the same to someone who doesn't know the difference anyway.. reliability is acceptable from about any major brand these days.. ignore words like "milspec" most who utter it don't know the difference... I have used about most of the brands out there and have not seen much difference in performance.. you would be much better off to understand the platform and what its most common issues are, than to even worry about brands.. most of the issues consumers see from colt all the way down to delton are very easily remedied by the owner and never require a return trip, educating yourself on the platform will allow you to understand your weapon and that will be much more beneficial than "brand hunting"....
 
If you get a top tier AR first, you might not appreciate the differences as a beginner, but you will have the peace of mind knowing you got a quality rifle.
That Saiga sounds like a good deal from what you wrote.
 
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