Looks like I may have finally contradicted myself

[ljnowell]

First off, had a great day today, and will probably make another thread about it overall. Long story short, my wife got a rare day off, the kids first day of school no less, so we went shooting together. Its something we rarely get to do on a 1 on 1 basis anymore.

My wife did great today, shooting some 148gr DEWC(from Missouri Bullet, naturally) loaded over 3.1 gr of AA#2. She was tearing it up, for the most part.

The downside was one of my more recent 45 colt loads. I had a thread on here bragging about what a tack driver it was, and it was again today. However, today it threw me for a loop. Last time I had them out it was a 100 degree day, they performed perfectly fine. Today, while it was only 80 degrees or so, they had a lot of unburned powder. I'm not sure if I should bump up the load or try a magnum primer. Up until now I have told people that asked me that I have never used a magnum primer with 2400, and that it isnt needed. I think maybe I was wrong.

The load in question is a 255gr LSWC(Missouri Bullet Cowboy #9) over 15gr 2400. Seated to the top of the crimp groove and a solid roll crimp applied.

Any thoughts? Its definately not at max load, but only off published data by .4gr. I am shooting it in a blackhawk, its safe much past that. I just really enjoyed the full power, standard pressure load. I am not looking for another ruger only load, rather something my wife and son can shoot.

 

[Remo-99]

Tried a firmer crimp?, 2400 I've noticed will not burn too well if the bullet starts down the barrel before the entire charge is ignited under good pressure.
Increasing the charge may help to boost starting pressures, as may magnum primers.

 

[loadedround]

Since you are already firmly roll crimping your cases, I would definitely switch to magnum primer to see if you get better powder burning. It does take a hot primer to get large volumes of 2400 burning cleaner and completely. Have you considered trying either WW296 or H110, they are both the same powder and are much cleaner burning in large capacity cases. Don't forget your reloading rules if you change primers or powder.

 

[ljnowell]

Since you are already firmly roll crimping your cases, I would definitely switch to magnum primer to see if you get better powder burning. It does take a hot primer to get large volumes of 2400 burning cleaner and completely. Have you considered trying either WW296 or H110, they are both the same powder and are much cleaner burning in large capacity cases. Don't forget your reloading rules if you change primers or powder

the confounding part of it is that I have loaded 8lbs of 2400 in the last year and a half, and never had this problem at all. all the way down to 40 degrees outside. Seemed to be an odd occurance. The exact same load didnt do it in testing. Weird.

 

[CraigC]

Firstly, what sixgun are you loading for?

15.0gr is on the low side and 2400 usually likes a little more load density for a complete burn but Dave Scovill routinely loads his Colt SAA's with 16.0gr with his RCBS270SAA cast bullet for around 1100fps.

DO NOT use magnum primers with 2400. Standard primers are all that is needed and they produce more consistent results.

 

[rcmodel]

rather something my wife and son can shoot.

Try the same bullet over 8.5 to 9.5 grains Unique.

That has been the goto .45 Colt load for a very long time.
Very pleasant shooting, and will kill anything that walks or crawls in the lower 48.

2400 is a poor powder choice unless you push pressure to +P "Ruger Only" .45 Colt levels.
And 15.0/255 lead SWC isn't.

rc

 

[ljnowell]

Firstly, what sixgun are you loading for?

15.0gr is on the low side and 2400 usually likes a little more load density for a complete burn but Dave Scovill routinely loads his Colt SAA's with 16.0gr with his RCBS270SAA cast bullet for around 1100fps.

DO NOT use magnum primers with 2400. Standard primers are all that is needed and they produce more consistent results.

These are being loaded for a Ruger Blackhawk. They can be pushed much harder, but I didnt really want to do that. I may step it up to Alliants published load of 15.4gr.

Try the same bullet over 8.5 to 9.5 grains Unique.

That has been the goto .45 Colt load for a very long time.
Very pleasant shooting, and will kill anything that walks or crawls in the lower 48.

2400 is a poor powder choice unless you push pressure to +P "Ruger Only" .45 Colt levels.
And 15.0/255 lead SWC isn't.

rc

I tried to use Unique in the past, and just didnt care much for it. I havent had any problems using 2400 in 357 mag and 45 colt loads that were not +p in the past, it just seems odd that it occured now, with a load that I had already tested with no problems.

As far as the load being on the low side, on Alliants website they list 250gr LSWC over 15.4gr of 2400. I stopped at 15 because I got great accuracy from the load. What blows my mind is that I fired 75 of these a few weeks ago, and got no unburned powder. Not significantly less, but literally none. They burned just as clean as my Ruger only load of 18.5 under a 300gr LTC.

I think I will go ahead and work it up a little higher, and see what happens. The only other solution I have is that I left this powder in my powder measure for a few weeks, and it has been hot and humid here in Lincolns Land. I really dont think the powder is bad though.

 

[CraigC]

You're probably only getting about 900fps from that load. Unique is really a better powder for that level and 9.0gr is about perfect.

If you crank it up to 18.5gr (another classic load) you'll get a more complete burn and that is still far from maximum. This level is more suited to 2400.

http://www.customsixguns.com/writings/dissolving_the_myth.htm

 

[ljnowell]

You're probably only getting about 900fps from that load. Unique is really a better powder for that level and 9.0gr is about perfect.

If you crank it up to 18.5gr (another classic load) you'll get a more complete burn and that is still far from maximum. This level is more suited to 2400

900 is about what I am looking for.

The funny thing is, and what no one has even addressed, is why did 75 rounds of this load burn perfectly clean, and then 20 more be horribly bad with unburned powder? I dont want to chabge to Unique, as I do not like unique. I use 2400 in massive amounts in other calibers, including my other 45 colt loads, and would like to develop a load for this bullet. I cant get why it was clean burning one day, and not the next. Any ideas?

 

[rcmodel]

I left this powder in my powder measure for a few weeks,

Well there you go!

Put it back in the can and seal it up when you get done using it.

rc

 

[ljnowell]

Well there you go!

Put it back in the can and seal it up when you get done using it.

rc

Do you think that could have caused the failure to burn, when it burned fine before? Thats the only thought that I had. I know it was lazy, I planned to reload the next day, then forgot. As I get older the "forgots" get more common.

 

[rcmodel]

Yes, if you had very high humidity, it could have caused it.

I have left powder in a measure and actually seen a change in powder measure drop weights from more mosture in the powder.

I was bad about doing it on my shotgun presses because it was a real hassle to dump them & the shot hopper all the time.

rc

 

[ljnowell]

Yes, if you had very high humidity, it could have caused it.

I have left powder in a measure and actually seen a change in powder measure drop weights from more mosture in the powder.

I was bad about doing it on my shotgun presses because it was a real hassle to dump them & the shot hopper all the time.

rc

I think I will try making about 25 more and see what happens. I also think that I will try to work them up a little higher, and see how much worse the recoil gets.

 

[Jeff H]

I dont want to chabge to Unique, as I do not like unique.

There is always Universal, Pistol Power, Green Dot and other similar powders to choose from. There are more powders besides 2400 and Unique.

 

[fecmech]

I know you said you like 2400 and as others have said there are many powders that will easily do 900 fps in the .45 colt. One example would be 231. With 231, 7-7.5 grs will put you in the 900fps range with 255's and give you 1000 loads per pound of powder as opposed to 466 loads with 15 grs of 2400. Just thought I'd mention that angle.

 

[depoloni]

Ah... As a guy who happens to love Unique, 231, H-110 and 2400 - amongst others - in specific applications, many of which I'm a bit stubborn about myself...

Sympathize with what you're really asking. My first inclination was to suggest Unique, my go-to for cast 45 Colt (and cast pretty much anything!). There are times when I prefer/insist on making a powder I'd prefer work - regularly. Given you've had more of a "blip" than a consistent problem with 2400 in your load combo, I would say that again rcmodel is likely on the money with regards to leaving it in the powder measure.

If your powder set in the measure and it's been hot and humid like about everywhere this summer, then it seems reasonable that your powder was affected by it. For one, the absorbed moisture could've affected the powder's burn rate in and of itself. It's also possible that moisture absorbed enough that you were dropping lighter charges than expected due to the water weight, which would lean towards incomplete burning of 2400. I've loaded it in 45 colt, 44mag, 44spl, and 357 mag with cast bullets at "moderate" velocities and on up. It burns cleaner the hotter the load from my experience. The "light charge" hypothesis holds the most weight to me as such, if your load WAS on the low-end of clean burning pressure and it dropped off, voila.

Just my 6 unwanted cents

 

[ljnowell]

There is always Universal, Pistol Power, Green Dot and other similar powders to choose from. There are more powders besides 2400 and Unique

I'm well aware of the selection available. I have Power Pistol, Bullseye, AA#2, 700x, 2400, and H110. I have worked loads using several of these powders. However, in my experimentation I came across the most accurate of loads that i have made for this pistol, using 2400. I dont want to change the powder. Like posted above, this load has performed well in the past, this is the first I am seeing of incomplete burn.

I know you said you like 2400 and as others have said there are many powders that will easily do 900 fps in the .45 colt. One example would be 231. With 231, 7-7.5 grs will put you in the 900fps range with 255's and give you 1000 loads per pound of powder as opposed to 466 loads with 15 grs of 2400. Just thought I'd mention that angle.

There are definately more economical powders to be using for it. I have an AA#2 load that I shoot out of it that uses 6.5gr. Its a nice load too, but not as accurate as the 2400 load.

Ah... As a guy who happens to love Unique, 231, H-110 and 2400 - amongst others - in specific applications, many of which I'm a bit stubborn about myself...

Sympathize with what you're really asking. My first inclination was to suggest Unique, my go-to for cast 45 Colt (and cast pretty much anything!). There are times when I prefer/insist on making a powder I'd prefer work - regularly. Given you've had more of a "blip" than a consistent problem with 2400 in your load combo, I would say that again rcmodel is likely on the money with regards to leaving it in the powder measure.

If your powder set in the measure and it's been hot and humid like about everywhere this summer, then it seems reasonable that your powder was affected by it. For one, the absorbed moisture could've affected the powder's burn rate in and of itself. It's also possible that moisture absorbed enough that you were dropping lighter charges than expected due to the water weight, which would lean towards incomplete burning of 2400. I've loaded it in 45 colt, 44mag, 44spl, and 357 mag with cast bullets at "moderate" velocities and on up. It burns cleaner the hotter the load from my experience. The "light charge" hypothesis holds the most weight to me as such, if your load WAS on the low-end of clean burning pressure and it dropped off, voila.

Just my 6 unwanted cents

I plan on testing this out tomorrow. I am taking a different can of 2400 from the same lot and opening it fresh. Straight into the hopper and see what happens. I will be sure to post back, with the end results.

 

[ljnowell]

Well, I made it back from the range with the new batch of the same load. Apparently my powder went south in the measure for a few weeks. The new loads at the same charge weight, just with different powder shot fine, good and clean. I also noticed that my powder measure is noticibly stained darker in the line where the 2400 was. Its still a smooth finish, but noticably darker. Now, obviously all powder measures will discolor over time, but this is a straight line where the powder was. It reminds me greatly of the Skeeter Skelton story about his cowkiller loads. He left unique in a measure and the powder failed.

Moral of the story, and this thread, dont leave powder in a powder measure for a few weeks, especially not if you live in a high humidity environment.

 

[GW Staar]

Well, I made it back from the range with the new batch of the same load. Apparently my powder went south in the measure for a few weeks. The new loads at the same charge weight, just with different powder shot fine, good and clean. I also noticed that my powder measure is noticibly stained darker in the line where the 2400 was. Its still a smooth finish, but noticably darker. Now, obviously all powder measures will discolor over time, but this is a straight line where the powder was. It reminds me greatly of the Skeeter Skelton story about his cowkiller loads. He left unique in a measure and the powder failed.

Moral of the story, and this thread, dont leave powder in a powder measure for a few weeks, especially not if you live in a high humidity environment.

Happy endings are great! I've never loaded for .45 colt...somebody broke into my house and heisted my Ruger .45 convertible years ago, before I got the chance. It's noteworthy that you chose 2400. I use it exclusively in .357, but I use and like Unique in .45 ACP. I think tall cases lend themselves well to 2400.

Also interesting was that you use 2400 w/o magnum primers and get away with it. I've always used mag. primers in loading 2400 in .357 mag. mostly because my old old Speer manual told me to. Now I'm hearing that that could be bad (CraigC's post in the similar .44 mag thread--this page)....will have to test things out....

Been guilty of leaving Unique in the powder measure for a month. Thank goodness it was during a dry New Mexico winter and did not effect it. That said, I appreciate the heads up....summers here are a tad more humid, thanks to a billion acres of irrigation.

Also thanks, CraigC for the .45 Colt link........may have to look for a new Ruger!

Good informative thread!!

 

[ljnowell]

Happy endings are great! I've never loaded for .45 colt...somebody broke into my house and heisted my Ruger .45 convertible years ago, before I got the chance. It's noteworthy that you chose 2400. I use it exclusively in .357, but I use and like Unique in .45 ACP. I think tall cases lend themselves well to 2400.

Also interesting was that you use 2400 w/o magnum primers and get away with it. I've always used mag. primers in loading 2400 in .357 mag. mostly because my old old Speer manual told me to. Now I'm hearing that that could be bad (CraigC's post in the similar .44 mag thread--this page)....will have to test things out....

Been guilty of leaving Unique in the powder measure for a month. Thank goodness it was during a dry New Mexico winter and did not effect it. That said, I appreciate the heads up....summers here are a tad more humid, thanks to a billion acres of irrigation.

Also thanks, CraigC for the .45 Colt link........may have to look for a new Ruger!

Good informative thread!!

I use a lot of 2400 in 357 also. I load a Missouri Bullet 158SWC over 14.5gr of it, and use standard SPP. I also load a 125gr Montana Gold JHP over 16.0gr of 2400 and I use a standard SPP for it also. I havent had any problems with it and standard primers in any of the 357 loads either.

I originally bought my first 2400 for this gun specifically. I wasnt reloading 357 yet, but I wanted some Ruger Only loads for my Blackhawk. I bought a pound of H110 at the same time. I just didnt care for it, as the loading window seemed to narrow to me. It was almost like, this is the load to use, and if your gun doesnt like it, too bad. I tried it in 357 also, and didnt care for it there as much as the 2400. It doesnt smell as good when it burns.