loose caps on nipples

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Lunie,

I was looking for the same graphics but the search turned up nada. I was thinking it was mykeal or MCB. It would also be nice to know what gun we're talkin' about here. For all we know a neighbor made this thing in their garage using a hammer and a dremmel tool.
 
Many thanks to EVERYONE who has posted to this thread.
I should add that the revolver in question is a "Santa Barbara", made in Spain, reproduction of a Remington New Army 1858. I got it more than ten years ago, in New Hampshire, used pristine, for $99. There are identical others which currently are selling today for over $400. I understand from several sources that it is a superior copy of the Rem, even though the company (in Spain) has gone belly-up. Nowadays it spends its time in Vermont, and I don't visit it and shoot it often in the winter. (Handgun laws are infinitely nicer in VT). When next I visit it I will remove its nipples (ouch) and replace them with Treso's, at the bare minimum. In the meantime I will continue my search for a better way to solve the problem of caps falling off unfired cylinders during the (moderate) recoil of the cylinder in use.
More ideas (similar to SmokinJoe's) are eagerly sought.
 
As tempting as it can be, you don't always need to re-invent the wheel. With the right nipple/cap combo, you won't have any further need to search. ;) The caps will stay on tight. Be sure and verify what threads your cylinder needs before you buy a set.

Best wishes and happy shooting to you.
 
Hi, people
Well, regardless of what many said, the Ampco Treso nipples did NOT solve the problem! I bought a set of six, installed them in the cylinder, and then fitted #11 caps, as recommended by the manufacturer. The first shot was OK, then EVERY succeeding shot has one or more of the other nipples fall off, under quite moderate recoil. I only loaded 22 grains of Blackpowder under a .454 ball. I have seen loads mentioned which specify 30 or more grains. I can't imagine how quickly the caps would come loose under those conditions.
Stepping back and looking at everything, the Treso nipples DID have a much better fit to the threads in the cylinder than the original steel nipples did. But a brass/bronze alloy is intrinsically more "slippery" than an iron one, so I can't imagine how they would hold the nipples better. And a close comparison showed that, besides the threaded portion, the new nipples were dimensionally IDENTICAL to the old steel ones.
So, it's back to the drawing board, or back to asking for more constructive ideas. In the meantime, since I won't be visiting the revolver for a couple of weeks, I intend to try to find a die for that metric thread, and make my own nipples with some kind of serration to help hold the nipples.
Any more OTHER ideas?
 
I would try the Remington #10's with the Treso's.
It sounds like you only tried #11's with them.
I would try all of the other different caps available if necessary because I wouldn't want to have wasted money on Treso nipples that didn't at least hold some size cap on during moderate recoil.
I don't have any Treso's and I would have bought steel, but everyone else seems to confidently say that some of the many cap brands will fit and work acceptably with them.
There's still the option of pinching the caps until you can figure out what works best with the new Treso's.
Is it possible that you are using old Remington caps that are known to have been made oversize compared to their current production caps?

http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=7943677&postcount=5
 
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Tresos are better for retaining caps because they have a smaller flash hole. The smaller hole results in less force on the cap as a result of combustion gas blowback into the nipple channel. The cone dimensions and material are not the reasons they are better.
 
No, I am not using old Remington #11 caps. Recent production. I will try other caps, but I was told that the new Tresos would solve the problem. And #11 caps are what is recommended by the manufacturer.
The size of the small hole has NOTHING to do with retaining caps on unfired chambers. Caps coming off of unfired chambers is what I initially complained about, and is still my problem. That's why I mentioned recoil, which is what causes the caps to fall off an unfired nipple when another one is being fired.

I have tried Remington #10 caps before (and they are NOT recommended on these new nipples) and there was no improvement. Just to repeat: these new nipples are identical in dimension to the old steel ones. And I know how to measure, and have the tools.
 
I guess that it's time to try CCI #10's.
Or send the nipples back to the manufacturer along with a complaint.
Track of the Wolf manufactures their own steel nipples that according to some reports, fit modern caps well.
And Blomquist Percussion Works is another custom nipple manufacturer, but their website is down. They can probably make some nipples large enough in diameter to allow a person to customize their fit.
 
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beag_nut said:
No, I am not using old Remington #11 caps. Recent production. I will try other caps, but I was told that the new Tresos would solve the problem. And #11 caps are what is recommended by the manufacturer.
The size of the small hole has NOTHING to do with retaining caps on unfired chambers. Caps coming off of unfired chambers is what I initially complained about, and is still my problem. That's why I mentioned recoil, which is what causes the caps to fall off an unfired nipple when another one is being fired.

I have tried Remington #10 caps before (and they are NOT recommended on these new nipples) and there was no improvement. Just to repeat: these new nipples are identical in dimension to the old steel ones. And I know how to measure, and have the tools.
Click to expand...

It sounds like you EXPECT some kind of guarantee of success from these board members. There are no guarantees in this venture. Keep trying different combinations until you find one that works for you. As they say YMMV!

BTW, I use Remington #10's on my Treso nipples with great results.
 
Beag_nut,
The TOW SS nipples work fine with Remington #10 caps. Try Rem#10s on the Tresos regardless of what the manufacturer says. If caps fall off under recoil it doesn't matter what they say, the cones are too small for tha cap you are using. Teh Tem 10s are smaller than the Rem #11s as are the CCI #11s, RWS#1075 & CCI#10s. I doubt the CCI #10s will fit the Tresos. Get the other sizes first. Otherwise go to Desperado Bullets and get their SliX Shot niples for your gun.
http://www.cowboybullets.com/Products.html (scroll to bottom of products page)
 
I went to the range just last night. I used Winchester #11 caps that were too large for my nipples but that had been resized as explained in Post #22 of this thread. No misfires, no lost caps and no issues.
 
To junkman:
No, I am not EXPECTING an ironclad solution, but I am hoping for one. When person after person writes with supreme confidence that his solution is the answer, one gets the idea that posters to this forum know more than the average shooter.
Although I was, at first, somewhat leery of Smokin' Joe's mechanical reworking of the caps (they ARE explosive), I intend to try that also. So far, after what I have experienced, it makes the most sense right now.
I still am hoping to hear from someone who has modified, or bought modified nipples, with some kind of means to hold the caps much better.
I am even going to visit a couple of re-enactors of Civil War battles (this is the 150th anniversary) to get their ideas.
 
I use both Treso and SS from ToTW. I don't find any difference between the two. I've found that CCI #11's work great on both.

No matter what nipples you use, "cap frags" are a fact of life, it's just one of the things that we learn to deal with. Personally I don't mind the occasional hiccup, it's part of the mystique of shooting 19th Century weapons. If you're looking for a more trouble free shooting experience maybe a more modern weapon like a SAA with BP cartridges would be advised.;)
 
beag_nut, many of us here shoot thousands of rounds a year from our cap pistols.
We know what works and what doesn't.
I currently have 8000 #10 Remingtons on hand and am getting nervous that my stock is so low.
 
One of the facts that helped me buy TOW SS nipples was that I was able to talk to the in house machinist that made the nipples and he stated that he designed their nipple for the CCI #11 cap because it was readily available. The proof was in the using and they were great no pinching,no seating,and no falling off. To add to the mix, the guns I'm using them on are 1862 Colt Police which have a reputation for being very cap fussy.
 
To: Pancho
Well, here in CT we get what we can find in the stores. Sometimes CCI is on the shelf, sometimes Rem., sometimes something else. I don't believe (and I am pretty sure about this) that the cavalry guys during the Civil War had much of a choice about which caps they could use on their nipples. So my question, yet again, is what did they do back then to keep themselves from being the victims of "loose caps on their nipples", and what can we today do about the general problem? And it IS a general problem, if one asks around.
I will not buy any more new nipples unless the maker shows that they have made some kind of mechanical improvement, which will work with ALL nipples, of a certain size.
 
beag_nut -

Your're right. Nothing's been done. It's a mystery to me why caps ever stay on at all. Guess we'll all just have to stop buying nipples and sit around and pout until they fix it, eh?
 
ROFLMAO
anim_ROFLMAO.gif
 
I'd really like to add something constructive to this thread that hasn't already been said - and ignored. I have never, repeat, never had an unfired cap fall off a nipple. Remington # 10s on Treso nipples are a tight fit to begin with, and there generally isn't enough room between the cylinder and recoil sheild for one to fall off - leastwise on all the C&Bs I own there isn't wth the exception of my Dance revolver. As far as cap fragments getting in the action and locking up the pistol, Treso nipples, # 10 Remington caps, and filling the hammer notch with JB weld has made all of the revolvers I use in CAS competition - shooting approximately 1400 rounds throgh '51 Navies, '61 Navies, '60 Armies and a '58 Remington last year - virtually jam proof.

There is a new nipple that has just come on the market called Slix-Shot. It has a different orifice than the Treso, and is cross drilled like the old HotShot nipples were. I've gottn a couple sets of them and should be trying them out this weekend - if the rain holds off. Here are a couple pictures of the new nipple along with a Treso and factory Uberti nipple.
DSCN1372.jpg
DSCN1371.jpg
DSCN1369.jpg
 
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Hey, Fingers: you say those nipples are "cross-drilled". Where? I don't see it in the photo you kindly showed.
 
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