I realize that I do want a smaller CCW piece but still retain the 9mm caliber. Of course I can't afford much either so I'm looking for a low cost but still acceptable choice for CCW 9mm. The choices are down to sub-compact versions of Taurus PT-111, Springfield XD-9. and also the Steyr S-9. I can get PT111 and S9 around 200, but XD9 is nearly 100 more but if it is worth the extra bill I might as well go for it. What do you think? Also I looked at Glock 26, but that's abit out of price range unfortunately.
Low Cost Subcompacts: Taurus PT-111 vs. Springfield XD-9 vs. Steyr S9?
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HighVelocity
Member
Of those three choices I'd go with the XD hands down. Great track record and fantastic customer service from Springfield.
Avoid the Steyr, you will not be happy.
I've heard mixed reviews of the Taurus but never fired one myself.
Avoid the Steyr, you will not be happy.
I've heard mixed reviews of the Taurus but never fired one myself.
orangeninja
Member
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Of your choices an XD is the best bet...of course I had a problem with mine and got rid of it. I would strongly recommend you either wait and get a Glock or buy a used Glock. Something else you may consider is a slim line S&W or Kahr.
SouthpawShootr
Member
I've been happy with my 2 Steyrs. Have an M9 and S9. So reliable it bores me. The only thing is and the only thing that should give you pause is that Steyr still does not have a US repair center to do warranty service. Word is that this is going to change come first of 2006, but they thought they solved the problem before. Still Steyr has lots of good features, not the least of which is the price (at the moment). The pistol has been redesigned (mostly grip area and the new ones will be about as expensive as Glocks).
XDs are a good solid and proven design. No reason not to. Except that if it just doesn't fit you. I can live with the fit, but the gun just doesn't grab me, so it stays home most of the time.
As far as the Taurus goes, don't buy anything but the Millenium Pro if you're looking at the PT-111s. There were teething pains on the early Millenium series and you stand just a good of a chance of getting a bad one as a good one. The Pros are another matter, though triggerpull isn't in the same league as the other guns you consider.
XDs are a good solid and proven design. No reason not to. Except that if it just doesn't fit you. I can live with the fit, but the gun just doesn't grab me, so it stays home most of the time.
As far as the Taurus goes, don't buy anything but the Millenium Pro if you're looking at the PT-111s. There were teething pains on the early Millenium series and you stand just a good of a chance of getting a bad one as a good one. The Pros are another matter, though triggerpull isn't in the same league as the other guns you consider.
Babalouie
Member
I recently went through the seemingly endless researching, reading and looking at everything I could get my hands on for a dedicated ccw weapon. I've owned an XD and loved it but the service model (4 inch) was just too chunky for ccw. I looked at the Kahrs but was not willing to support the Rev. Moon (his son owns Kahr) and the price is rediculous anyway. So, I bought a Taurus Mil. Pro in 40SW. I have 200 rounds through it without a single failure of anykind. The trigger is long but fairly smooth (I wanted a long pull for ccw), has a slide safety and is really compact. The Pt-111 is a little smaller than the Pt-140. Like Southpaw said make sure you look at the Millenium Pro. The Millenium (non-pro) models evidently had lousy triggers and other problems. You can do a search for the PT-145 and will be hard pressed to find an actual owner of one say anything bad about them. I really like mine and have no regrets. And the price can't be beat. Man, I love a value!
Thanks for the advice, really great info. The PT111 is a Millennium Pro version, so I guess it's a step up from the regular Taurus? The only concern is that XD seems to be just odd looking and the grip geometry doesn't quite fit my hand, not sure how, just odd feeling. The S9 has some extreme grip angle, I can't say I dont' like it, just that it's odd, I'm sure I'd get used to it if I work at it. The only mystery is the Taurus, I donn't know of anything about that company, even though it seems theyv'e been around for some time. The only issue would be their track record. XD hasn't been around that many years, has it? I thought it was HS2000, which really came right around the 2000.
SouthpawShootr
Member
The XD was indeed the HS2000. Springfield relabeled it, rebranded it, and jacked the price by about a hundred bucks. Otherwise, same gun. Only thing is the subcompact was not offered previously. Oh yeah, the stuck a rail on the dust cover.
The original Millenium series was such a disaster that Taurus recognized that even if they corrected the problems, the line was poisoned in the eyes of the gun buying public. Frankly, I'm surprised they kept the Millenium part of the name. They have a lifetime warranty, so you will be able to get them to fix the gun if there is a material defect (you might have to wait a while and be a persistant pain). I haven't seen any problems reported with the line since the transition to Pros. Sure there are the usual gripes about trigger pull, but you should have that settled before you buy the gun.
See if you can find an XD to shoot (very likely there might be a range that rents them close to you). You might be able to find someone with a Millenium Pro to try out and maybe a Steyr also.
The original Millenium series was such a disaster that Taurus recognized that even if they corrected the problems, the line was poisoned in the eyes of the gun buying public. Frankly, I'm surprised they kept the Millenium part of the name. They have a lifetime warranty, so you will be able to get them to fix the gun if there is a material defect (you might have to wait a while and be a persistant pain). I haven't seen any problems reported with the line since the transition to Pros. Sure there are the usual gripes about trigger pull, but you should have that settled before you buy the gun.
See if you can find an XD to shoot (very likely there might be a range that rents them close to you). You might be able to find someone with a Millenium Pro to try out and maybe a Steyr also.
Babalouie
Member
If possible try to compare the two side by side. If you are looking for a dedicated ccw the Mil Pro is much more concealable because of the width of the slide especially. The grip angles, I believe, are the same...I know the XD grip angle is the same as a 1911 and I think the Mil Pro is too. Both are natural pointers for me, but then I've been shooting a 1911 in ipsc for several years. The trigger on the XD is glockish and a trigger job can make it real good...not sure if a Mil Pro can be worked on but I plan to find out soon. If you are looking for a firearm that can do more than ccw, ie shoot it in production class ipsc or sport/fun shooting then an XD would be the way to go and I would go with the service model. You can ccw with it but on a daily basis its cumbersome.
MillCreek
Member
I undertook the same sort of analysis earlier this year and ended up with a 9 mm Millennium Pro. I did not like the ergonomics and grip of the XD, and read too much about the finish/rusting issues. No one in the Seattle area had a stainless XD compact at the time, and the ETA was several months. I have never been a Glock fan but did think long and hard about one of the compact Kahrs. I don't think I have ever seen a Steyr in the flesh in this area.
To date, the PT-111 has about seven hundred rounds through it with no failures. It has really grown on me. Now if Taurus would make a single-stack 6+1 9 mm Pro, with a titanium slide, I would buy it in an instant.
To date, the PT-111 has about seven hundred rounds through it with no failures. It has really grown on me. Now if Taurus would make a single-stack 6+1 9 mm Pro, with a titanium slide, I would buy it in an instant.
Pietro Beretta
Member
I have an XD40 Sub-Compact.
I have 900 rounds through my XD. My 1 failure was at about round #80 and the round faild to load completley into the chamber.
It has been a great handgun, it fits the hand well and have had no problems with egronomics or discomfort in anyway.
If your thinking about a compact gun, you might want to look at a RAMI from CZ. They make some good firearms and their RAMI might be worth looking at, it is an all metal gun so it is heavery than the "plastic" guns. Take A Look at the RAMI here Best I have seen on the net is 420 +S&H
I have 900 rounds through my XD. My 1 failure was at about round #80 and the round faild to load completley into the chamber.
It has been a great handgun, it fits the hand well and have had no problems with egronomics or discomfort in anyway.
If your thinking about a compact gun, you might want to look at a RAMI from CZ. They make some good firearms and their RAMI might be worth looking at, it is an all metal gun so it is heavery than the "plastic" guns. Take A Look at the RAMI here Best I have seen on the net is 420 +S&H
Babalouie
Member
Pietro, I've never seen that RAMI before...looks very nice. What is the size of it compared to say your XD sub, a Mil pro or a 1911 commander size? I assume by the low round count that its a single stack, am I right? Have you shot one?
Regarding the XD finish, mine never rusted but it was a weak finish that showed serious holster wear after just a few ipsc matches.
Regarding the XD finish, mine never rusted but it was a weak finish that showed serious holster wear after just a few ipsc matches.
xd 40cal. compact
Hit the range with my xdc 40cal. super sweet, please keep in mind that I carried a glock 23 for the last 15yrs. I still feel the glock is a work horse, but xdc shoots thight groups with range ammo and is easy to aim point and shoot. I will use it for IPSC production class and CC also fits in my wife hands.
sp 40cal.
Hit the range with my xdc 40cal. super sweet, please keep in mind that I carried a glock 23 for the last 15yrs. I still feel the glock is a work horse, but xdc shoots thight groups with range ammo and is easy to aim point and shoot. I will use it for IPSC production class and CC also fits in my wife hands.
sp 40cal.
USPCompact45
Member
For concealing purposes, you want a short grip but you don't want it too short that you cannot control the firearm. I really like the xdsc, I have one in .40 s&w. It has been great after break in. As a previous posted suggested, maybe you could look into a used glock 26. The 9mm glocks have been tested to be one of the most reliable polymer pistols. I wouldn't getting one in .40 or 45 gap.
sturmruger
Member
I own 4 Steyrs and 2 XDs. If you are looking for a small concealable carry gun you would be hard pressed to beat the XD, but the Steyr line of pistols are just as excellent.
I currently carry a Steyr S9 that I am extremly happy with. It has been utterly reliable and shoots very well.
I currently carry a Steyr S9 that I am extremly happy with. It has been utterly reliable and shoots very well.
Zundfolge
Member
I alternate between a Kahr MK9 and a Steyr S40
My Steyr is more accurate then any other .40 I've shot (other then my M40) and extremely reliable ... so I don't know what HighVelocity is talking about (unless he's been talking to Cornbread
Long story...not worth getting into here and having the thread locked).
That said, there are less places to find holsters, accessories and such for the Steyr.
My Steyr is more accurate then any other .40 I've shot (other then my M40) and extremely reliable ... so I don't know what HighVelocity is talking about (unless he's been talking to Cornbread
Long story...not worth getting into here and having the thread locked).That said, there are less places to find holsters, accessories and such for the Steyr.
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waterhouse
Member
I've never shot the taurus, but I have shot an XD and I own a Steyr m-9. I used to have an s-9 but the M fit my hand better.
Although I don't shoot it much (I prefer my SIGs and 1911s) the Steyr is a great gun, and if CDNN still has any left they had really good deals on them. I cannot imagine why anyone should avoid the Steyr for fear of not being happy . . .they work and they are a good price. The front sight takes some getting used to, but it is very quick on target once you are used to it.
Although I don't shoot it much (I prefer my SIGs and 1911s) the Steyr is a great gun, and if CDNN still has any left they had really good deals on them. I cannot imagine why anyone should avoid the Steyr for fear of not being happy . . .they work and they are a good price. The front sight takes some getting used to, but it is very quick on target once you are used to it.
Black Majik
Member
I've shot the XD, it was a pleasant experience. If I was looking for a compact between the three, I'd go for the XD.
duncan
Member
XD from those choice but why no Kahr PM9?
Nice guns and they are really pocket carry!
Nice guns and they are really pocket carry!
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