Quantcast

LSWCHP

Discussion in 'Handguns: Revolvers' started by Blue Brick, Jun 5, 2019.

  1. Blue Brick

    Blue Brick Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2007
    Messages:
    1,570
    Location:
    Pinal County, Arizona
  2. Dave T

    Dave T Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2003
    Messages:
    1,068
    Location:
    Mesa, AZ
    The Federal load has a velocity of 794 fps. Further down there's Remington offering with a velocity of 802 fps. And at the bottom of the page Winchester's version is going 750 fps. All this from 2" barrels. These anemic velocities are the problem.

    Buffalo Bore's Heavy 38 Special +P 158g SWCHP-GC chronographs about 1050 fps from my 2.5" 386 NG. It probably stands some chance of expanding, but I'm not totally confident in it either. The ones from the Big-3 are pathetic and shouldn't even be called +P rounds.

    YMMV,
    Dave
     
  3. Lucky Derby

    Lucky Derby Member

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2006
    Messages:
    2,299
    Location:
    Colorado Rockies
    Even the non +P Buffalo Bore version does 850 out of a two inch barrel. The +P is over 1000. Paul Herrell has a video with the non +P where he compates it to other non +P loads.
     
    Tom-R2, earlthegoat2 and ancientnoob like this.
  4. The Evangelist Cowboy

    The Evangelist Cowboy Member

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2017
    Messages:
    1,050
    Location:
    Is anybody going to San Antone?
    I've never seen the mainstream loadings of this do well from a sub 3 inch barrel. If you had a 3 or 4 inch barreled model 10 or something similar it makes a dandy load. With snubs I prefer to run semi wadcutters.
     
  5. ArchAngelCD

    ArchAngelCD Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2006
    Messages:
    25,298
    Location:
    Northeast PA, USA
    The ones I load will expand from a 2" barrel but then again, so what?

    A controlled pair center mass will completely ruin a bad guys day, expansion of not. Besudes, you will probably never find out thank God.
     
    km101, Monster Zero, YJake and 6 others like this.
  6. Riomouse911

    Riomouse911 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2013
    Messages:
    1,996
    Location:
    Ca.
    Federal offered a “Nyclad” LSWCHP that was a soft lead slug coated with polymer that would expand a bit more reliably from shorter barreled .38’s... but I don’t know if it’s still offered.

    Standard loads just don’t get the speed from snubs to reliably expand the harder alloys, even the +P versions. Guns with barrels of 4” and up have better results.

    Stay safe.
     
    Lucky Derby likes this.
  7. The Evangelist Cowboy

    The Evangelist Cowboy Member

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2017
    Messages:
    1,050
    Location:
    Is anybody going to San Antone?
    They are no longer produced, I asked federal years ago if they would reintroduce it but they said there was no plans on the horizon and advised me to go with that wadcutter hp they have out now.
     
    Riomouse911 likes this.
  8. Blue Brick

    Blue Brick Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2007
    Messages:
    1,570
    Location:
    Pinal County, Arizona
    I might have to try the HST.
     
    fordtrucks and Riomouse911 like this.
  9. edwardware

    edwardware Member

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2010
    Messages:
    1,554
    There is no "the LSWCHP", although there are lots of LSWCHP bullets (and loaded ammunition) available. Snubs are generally velocity challenged, so softer bullets are necessary for expansion (if that's what you want). Softer bullets are industrially difficult, so you won't find them often, i.e. Nyclad.

    I chose to prioritize penetration. . . with a 158 LSWC.
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2019
    35 Whelen likes this.
  10. Eddietruett

    Eddietruett Member

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2018
    Messages:
    559
    There is a SWCHP that you can get from Rim Rock Bullets that is extremely soft. It is supposed to be the same bullet used in the Buffalo Bore Bullets. I've loaded them down to around 650-700 fps out of a 2" 38 special and they will expand in water jugs as well as anything I've ever shot. Problem is they won't penetrate. I know there are a lot of people who swear by the old FBI load with a LSWCHP as their defense load and for many years it was mine as well. But now there are so many offerings with jacketed bullets that are designed to expand and penetrate out of short barrels, I don't see advantage of the lead bullet anymore. Years ago it was the way to get expansion but you still had to push it fairly hard. Now the new bullets will do the same if not more with a lot less recoil which makes it a better defense load in my opinion. Especially for follow up shots. I just did a little playing around with several loads and water jugs with a buddy. Sort of a non scientific experiment. He is a die hard believer of using a hot .357 mag load in his snubby carry load. I had started carrying Remington Golden Saber +P 38 Special in all of my carry revolvers even the 3" .357 mag I carry a lot. Side by side, the Golden Saber out performed his .357 loads when all 3 factors I consider important were considered. Expansion was about the same. Penetration was a little better with the .357 but maybe a little too much, but due to much less recoil both of us were able to shoot shots 2-6 much quicker and more accurate. Everyone had their opinion on carry ammo and this argument will continue as long as there are guns to carry, but I put accuracy and speed of follow up shots at the top of the list on my carry requirements, so until something new comes out, I'm totally confident in the Golden Saber and a close 2nd is the new HST.
     
    Riomouse911 likes this.
  11. Gordon

    Gordon Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2002
    Messages:
    9,381
    Location:
    Southern Oregon
    The Remington load is the softest commercial large company load like that , it is +p and it does rivet almost every time in flesh.
     
    Walkalong and Riomouse911 like this.
  12. Ratshooter

    Ratshooter Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2007
    Messages:
    3,283
    Location:
    Burleson,Texas
    I load Speer 158gr hollow point SWC bullets to just over 900fps from a 2" snub Taurus model 85 and they expand fine in water jugs. I also do the Phillips screwdriver trick to the hollow point before loading them in the cases.
     
  13. fastbolt

    fastbolt Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2002
    Messages:
    2,843
    Location:
    Within the lightning
    In older days the 158gr LSWCHP +P (also known as a LHP +P in at least one company's offering) enjoyed quite a satisfactory reputation when fired from regular 4" service barrels, and even from 3" barrels (like the FBI's Model 13 RB 3").

    It even enjoyed a pretty good reputation when fired from little 2" snubs, although some of the FBI-influenced ballistic testing didn't seem to produce much in the way of expansion. I have some factory testing from Winchester somewhere in my older notes, dated 2002 (I think), in which the bare gel and heavy clothing results, using a S&W Model 60 2" snub, averaged .36 caliber.

    However, anecdotal reports from older times over the years seemed to indicate decent effectiveness in actual shootings involving its use in snub revolvers. Maybe because the soft swaged LHP design would hit bone and deform and/or expand? Dunno. There were some satisfied LE users of it, though. Hey, an all-lead hollowpoint probably had a better chance of deforming or expanding than one of the old-style 158gr JHP or JSP loads, even in +P. Those older thick jacketed cup & core JHP/JSP's didn't exactly produce consistent expansion when fired from 4" service barrels, so you might imagine the potential falling off when even shorter barrels were involved. At least the all-lead hollowpoints didn't have to overcome a jacket, right?

    The Rem version was reputed to be softer than the Win version, and it was observed to do better in some gel testing of the time, and the Fed version seemed to fall somewhere between? I still have most of a box of the original Fed 158gr Nyclad LSWCHP +P left over in my collection of older duty and off-duty ammo, as it was one of the then-newer 158gr loads I carried in my older J's back in those days.
     
    Gordon likes this.
  14. kidneyboy

    kidneyboy Member

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2018
    Messages:
    433
    Location:
    SE WI
    A swaged bullet probably has a better chance of expansion over a cast bullet. Otherwise accuracy is your friend.
     
  15. Ratshooter

    Ratshooter Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2007
    Messages:
    3,283
    Location:
    Burleson,Texas
    Yes and always keep in mind that just because a bullet expands doesn't mean its a sure killer or sure stopper. We have been told for so long that hollow points are magic bullets that now we think an expanding bullet is the only one that will work. Round balls and round nose and flat nosed bullets have been passing out dirt naps for several centuries now. I'll take penetration over expansion any day.
     
    Dave T, pete950, Waveski and 3 others like this.
  16. ArchAngelCD

    ArchAngelCD Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2006
    Messages:
    25,298
    Location:
    Northeast PA, USA
    Some years Federal did reintroduce their Nyclad ammo but for some reason they without their heart into it and it was hard to find. The price was high too. I do have 2 older 50 round boxes in the gold Federal box and 1.5 boxes of the newer stuff.

    It was accurate enough but the 158gr LSWC/HP ammo was always more accurate for me. (FBI Load)
     
  17. Riomouse911

    Riomouse911 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2013
    Messages:
    1,996
    Location:
    Ca.
    I remember when Nyclad was all the rage, then they faded away faster than a 35 dollar suit. :)

    Stay safe.
     
  18. Merle1

    Merle1 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2013
    Messages:
    868
    IIRC, the newer RP LSWC-HP is much harder than the older ammo.
    That could make a big difference in a 2" bbl.
     
    Gordon likes this.
  19. roo_ster

    roo_ster Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2003
    Messages:
    3,173
    Location:
    USA
    I use both Remington and Underwood .38spl+P 158gr LSWCHP.

    The Remington in my HD SW686 with 4" bbl, as all the tests I have seen show it penetrates and expands as it should from a 4" bbl.

    The Underwood I stuff in my snubby as it generates roughly the same velocity as the Remingtons, but out of a 1 7/8" bbl.

    The HD SW686 may well be used by a family member and the 4" 686 has hte mass to keep the recoil managable for them.
     
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice